If it was just about features then the fully loaded one would be it. The only reason to choose the Mercedes would be if the features that it does have worked better or were more reliable.
You have a point. A Mercedes in Germany is just a regular domestic car like a Ford or Chevy here. Their regular car quality might still be a bit better than what’s regular for us though, but probably not enough to justify the price. They’re imported to the US and the price is jacked up to make people feel special. It’s like paying $200 for shoes that have a copyrighted brand or style that are otherwise no different than $60 shoes.
They gave out free steering wheel locks in some areas. They allowed people to use the key fob to disable the car until the unlock on the key fob is pressed again. Too bad for anyone who shares the car with someone who just has a key. No updated part or kit for the ignition cylinder lock was made available.
IIHS was created by insurance companies to reduce payouts in crashes. Their focus is that you don’t get a broken toe or finger in a moderate accident. Especially reducing types of injuries that will cost a lot of money long term. Their ratings don’t have much to do with if you will survive a more severe accident, especially for the frontal crash tests. In some cases it is cheaper to them if you die in a car crash compared to surviving with injuries. Many car companies do the minimum to do well on these laboratory tests. Look at how flimsy the door beam is on a 2010-2012 Ford Fusion. The original 31 MPH side crash test doesn’t test the door strength, so they do the minimum and leave it weak.
Yes I think you have a good point. The quality, especially for Mercedes, is worse too. It’s like the $200 shoes. I worked on a 2018 BMW 3 series. The rust protection in road salt areas on that is very bad. Already more rust than a 2001 BMW has. Nobody should drive a late model BMW in a salt area. But the quality of the non luxury cars is worse too. You have a point about the luxury brands’ quality really going down way more. There are other luxury brands like Volvo and Jaguar that need to be considered too.
Trying to down play the issue by saying that the floor mat is getting stuck on the gas pedal, when really the issue is terrible software and no hardware backup, while people are still getting killed. When they took the cars in to chop off the bottom of the gas pedal, they quietly updated the firmware and fixed the issue.
The safety issue for me is the biggest reason to go with a more expensive car. Excluding the ridiculous crash stuff, since there are something like 2 crash tests ever done above 40 MPH, you have to do your own analysis and hope that paying more for a vehicle will get you something that’s better designed. One crash test was the 2010 Honda CRV, an IIHS safety pick plus. Increasing the crash test speed from 40 MPH to 50 MPH turned it in to a fatal crash, with a rating of Poor. A BMW would have dual stage airbags. Honda did the minimum required to do well on the 40 MPH test.
This is the key to your initial post. Is it better to buy a “base” luxury car or an optioned up mainstream car? That is an age-old question without a definite answer!
Cars are not just transportation. They are status symbols and lifestyle choices to some people. Some drive Porsches because the image is power performance and prestige to their peers. Some drive the Prius or Tesla so they can wear their “green” publicly. Some buy Lexus instead of the Toyota version because they want to present as being successful and affluent. Whether you agree or not about the reasons, they are real to the buyer and that’s what matters when the contract is signed.
It really depends on what you want from a car. Many don’t shop solely on price and features or brands like BMW, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Land Rover or Jaguar wouldn’t exist. Some people pay extra for the image, the perceived luxury or durability. Name dropping that you own a BMW at a party is worth the extra cost and poor reliability.
It all comes down to the buyer’s wants, needs and perceptions.
Yes, it was basic, but I think that “good” is not necessarily justified. Consumer Reports chose to do a head-to-head test of the Hyundai Excel and the Yugo, in order to determine which of those bottom-of-the-barrel cars was preferable. They were so unimpressed with both of them that they recommended neither of them, and CR stated that someone looking to buy a car in that price category should instead look for a US-made used car in good condition.
That is correct, but let’s not forget the lack of sophistication/knowledge of some car buyers. When I was a teenager, one of our neighbors bought a new Impala “because the Biscayne’s interior was too small”. Apparently, nicer upholstery confused him to the point of being unable to compare those two variants on an objective basis.
Me, I would take one of the most reliable cars on the planet over, well, not the most reliable…
Piece of mind and my time are worth a lot… Plus anybody can work on a Toyota, MB takes a more advanced mechanic, not to mention the special tools over a Toyota (for the most part)…
I knew a guy that decided to start working on Euros cause of the pay (already did some work on them), well his giant Mac Tool box already full of tools had to have about 15K more in tools invested… lol
Safety has progressed to the point it doesn’t matter whether the car you are buying or comparing is either German, Japanese, American, or Korean. Cars have gotten safer overtime. IIHS is raising the bar because of severe crashes. This is why they introduced the updated moderate overlap test and side test. Automakers consistently make their cars safer.
It is also noting that whether a car is German or Japanese doesn’t matter when it comes to safety. In 2013, the BMW X1 got a “Marginal” rating while the 2014 Subaru Forester got a Good rating.
Another part of my question was why are car enthusiasts (like the ones on CarTalk or YouTube) taking issue when luxury cars are being compared to mainstream cars even if they are in the same price range? Why were people in the comments bringing up things like “BMW has great handling, Kia is boring!” even though that was irrelevant to the review? (The whole point of the review was features) And same with Toyota, when a person brings up how many standard features that Toyota has and how these features are not available/optional on a BMW, why do people argue against that?
I don’t know if the point on “social status” is the answer to my question.
Those “features” you want to compare include the reputation, reliability and status as well. Those are all features. If a Toyota compared to a BMW exactly in price, options, power, speed, handling and ride it still won’t have the status some people apply to BMW.
Heck, the Toyota won’t even have the status of a Lexus… same company, same car platform, same suppliers, same engine but the Lexus costs more and has greater status to some people. That will enter the discussion whenever you make comparisons.
Some people have an impression about certain marques even though they’ve never even driven one. The advertisements and friends planted those thoughts and they stuck. (Ooo, BMWs handle fantastic and are sporty!! Volvos are really SAFE!, Mercedes run forEVER!)
So, Yes, the “social status” matters as does the brand’s status when that question is raised.
I have nothing important to say except I tend to reject the statement that people buy cars as a status symbol. Sure some do but by and large I just think people buy cars because they like them, not because the neighbor will be impressed. In fact in some cases a nice car can be an embarrassment. Back in 74 my wife commented that our car was too showey. I said I don’t care what other people think but after what we went through, we deserve it.
Now I rented a Camry once, and I rented an impala once also. And although they did their job, they were truly two of the most boring cars I’ve ever driven. Some cars I don’t mind making payments on but those two, no way I would enter into a long term commitment. Even the Jeep’s with all their faults were more interesting to drive.
Now I rented a Camry once, and I rented an impala once also. And although they did their job, they were truly two of the most boring cars I’ve ever driven. Some cars I don’t mind making payments on but those two, no way I would enter into a long term commitment. Even the Jeep’s with all their faults were more interesting to drive.
Rental car companies give you the lowest trim usually. Typically rental cars, cars you would see in a car-sharing place, drivers ed vehicles would fall under the “boring” category.
Fully loaded Camries (or models with the V6) can be a lot of fun after modifications and tuning. My friend has a 2019 Camry XSE and he had some aftermarket modifications and did some tuning. His Camry now has 300 hp after tuning (which is more hp than my Mazda3 Turbo stock on premium fuel).
He said after modifications, it is a lot of fun to drive.
Rental companies sell their car for about what they pay for them. They need to have reasonably packaged features to get the best prices. There are standard rental packages. My experience has not been stripped down models.
The company I retired from had the Enterprise rental cars and light trucks service and repair contract and most were not base models… Matter a fact the end of 2018 I had to travel 120 miles round trip and work 10+ hour shifts not counting lunch, and I ended up with a 2018 Silverado LT 4WD 4 door 5.3L truck that I ended up putting over 4000 miles on it… It was a fully load LT model…
BTW: I am neither a GM guy by any means and am one that thinks a truck is a truck and not a luxury vehicle, but dang I fell in love with that truck and all the features it had…and my Pit Bulls at the time loved it also… lol
BTW: Having white and tan dog(s) hair removed from a black interior is NOT cheap, but my doggies were well worth it… I bet that was the cleanest rental truck that they ever had returned after a long rental…
I have raced a few modded V6 Camrys, much respect to them, I was surprised how fast they were, I still spanked them but still surprised… I would love to have one!!!.. And the styling of the XSE looks pretty good also…
This guy doesn’t think a Chevy Malibu is comparable to a BMW.
What a clever deception about the rear seats becoming less safe. The rear seats are safer because of improved side impact protection, which probably makes their deception technically true. But it is a lie to say that the rear seats are safer in a frontal accident. Cars have gotten stronger, and this exposes everyone to higher forces in an accident. It’s basic physics. Partially due to IIHS, cars don’t smash in as much and lengthen the crash pulse. So the rear seats are more dangerous than before in a frontal colision.
It took them 28 years to add a dummy to the back seat!
I guess you believe the floor mat can get stuck on the gas pedal in Toyotas and that’s all there is to the uncontrolled acceleration problem
.
Yes and nearly every other vehicle got a rating of Poor. edit: I should have said Marginal or Poor. The BMW’s rating was only due to a left leg injury, nothing that would be life threatening. A fatal head injury and a broken leg are considered to be about equal to the IIHS.
Look how the steering wheel moves to the side and the dummy completely misses the airbag in the 2013 Toyota Camry small overlap test, but in the BMW X1 this doesn’t happen. That’s enough for me to see that there is a difference when you pay more for a luxury car.
Just sayin’ the crash seems to be on the side of the front end not smack in the middle where the engine is. The engine of my cousins 58 Chevy landed in the front seat. I’m sure they test for that too but engines don’t crumple much. I just really to put a lot of stock in crash tests I guess. Any accident is bad.
Then those people are fools. I would rather drive a paid-off economy car than be in debt up to my eyeballs for something “fancy” in order to “impress” other people that I really could give a flying flip about. So yes, I would compare a Toyota Corolla, Dodge Caravan, even an old Dodge Shadow to the most expensive cars on the market, because for my purposes, they do the same thing.
Well no. But there are mainstream models that have more features, nice interiors that look premium, creature comforts or materials that scream luxury (leather seats, ventilated seats, rear-heated seats, heated steering wheel, acoustic glass, etc.)
The X1 is not in the same size class as a Camry. (Most people who compare luxury cars with mainstream cars compare the size: either midsize, compact, fullsize) Also what about Audi’s midsize offering in 2012? The A4: Poor. Mercedes-Benz’s own midsize offering? The '12 C-Class: Poor.
There are plenty of other midsize mainstream cars. The '13 Honda Accord got the best rating of Good. The '13 Ford Fusion got a rating of Acceptable. Don’t just compare a Camry. Compare other fully loaded less expensive cars.
There are standard rental packages. My experience has not been stripped down models.
I am too young to rent cars (in about 96% of states) because I am only 19 (I am looking at you rental car companies and insurance companies), but with my experience with being in other rental cars I have been in a couple stripped down models, generally mid-level, rarely well equipped:
Here are the ones I remember kind of:
2013 Nissan Altima (base)
2011 Toyota Camry LE (base I think)
2013 Ford Mustang (V6 model)
2014 Ford Escape SEL (It didn’t have too many upgrades, although it was a second-to-highest trim)
2016 Kia Sedona LX (base)
2016 GMC Terrain SLT (mid-level)
2017 Audi Q3 Premium (base)
2017 Nissan Rogue SV (a bit stripped down)
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan (GT model)
2018 Dodge Charger SXT (mid-level)
2019 Subaru Legacy Premium (mid-level)
2020 Nissan Maxima SV (mid-level)
2022 Ford Transit (doesn’t have trims, but a couple extra upgrades)
2019 Infiniti Q50 Pure (base)
2022 Nissan Maxima SV (mid-level)
2022 Kia Sorento LX (base)
2022 Toyota 4Runner TRD-Offroad Premium (well-equipped version of a mid-level trim)
2021 Ford Explorer Limited (well-equipped and had a bit more features than my current car lol)
You are entitled to your opinions. But that doesn’t mean the argument isn’t valid. Other buyers have other opinions equally valid to your own.
For “your purposes” is the key point. The Shadow does not excel in anything in any way. It was simple transportation sometimes capable of going from point A to point B when the owner wanted. But it was never particularly reliable, rode poorly, handled worse, had seats barely better than a lawn chair and, in some peoples eyes, was an ugly car.
Many people spent more money in that era to buy cars that were better in every way than the Shadow because they wanted to suffer less driving from point A to B. In the 8 year run, Dodge only sold 671,128 cars. Not exactly a huge success. The Corolla, by comparison, has been one of the world’s best selling cars for decades.
The 3.5L engine can be quite a powerhouse, especially when it’s in a Lotus and supercharged. See if you can get that in a Camry or any other stock Toyota.
