Why do car enthusiasts (on here and around) take issue when other people/car enthusiasts compare luxury cars with mainstream cars?

General Discussion
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I know my question kind of forms an unpopular opinion on car communities.

And note, I am not calling anyone out anytime I mention a comment, and if you are the person who sent the comment, you are not in trouble. I make peace.

A couple car enthusiasts on the internet and in real life (I have known and heard of) compare luxury cars with mainstream cars. My friend’s cousin compared a Dodge Charger to an Audi A5 Sportback because it was around the same price. (I don’t know what configurations was the Dodge in the comparison, but he ended with the mid level Audi A5). A car enthusiast I saw on a forum compared 4 cars. A Golf, S3, F-Pace, Accord. (I don’t know what he ended up with)

But some car enthusiasts take issue with people who compare luxury cars (particularly stripped-down entry models) to mainstream models (either fully-loaded or well-equipped).

I saw a couple of Kia car videos, and on a video where the reviewer explained why a fully-loaded K5 could compete with a base BMW/Audi (in terms of features), many YouTube commenters took issue with it. They were like: “A K5 competes with an Accord, not a BMW/Audi”, “It is just a Kia”, “Being honest, if you had the money, you’d get a Benz or BMW every time”, etc. And that does not just stop there. The same reviewer talked about the features of the Telluride, and even praised the fact it had rear ventilated seats. (Which I commend Hyundai/Kia for doing). He said that not even a slightly more expensive BMW has them. People once again took issue saying, “The thing with the BMW is you’re paying for performance and fun with A Kia you’re never gonna get performance and fun really…”, “I bought bmw for my status symbol, Kia doesn’t make it , sometimes money make power…”, etc. The reviewer mentioned nothing about performance or driving dynamics, just features.

On YouTube videos about a luxury car vs mainstream car, the comments taking issue continues.

A couple days ago, I mentioned on the CarTalk community about a fully-loaded Toyota that has some pretty nice features that German automakers didn’t offer standard or as an option. Couple of folks here took issue with it by saying:

“Luxury car brands sell what the customer wants, and they don’t want a Toyota. They might be happy with a Lexus though and they are more expensive than a Toyota too.” (This is the most common argument when a comparison like this is brought up)

I am a little confused after mentioning the comments here. Is it bad to compare a luxury car and a mainstream car (around the same price)? What is the problem? Why do car enthusiasts (on here and around) take issue when other people/car enthusiasts compare luxury cars with mainstream cars?

Now with this post, I am not saying I will get mad at a guy who buys a base Mercedes-Benz C300 over a maxed out Camry XSE V6 (I think C300s are awesome cars, and V6 Camries are neat as well). If the guy likes his Benz, why not let him enjoy it?

I am just confused why the luxury car vs mainstream car comparisons are argued against, the arguments about mainstream brands offering more standard tech/features than luxury car brands (in some cases) as well.

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I didn’t go back to look for this thread, but from memory I think this comment was about the Prius. Given that (at least until this upcoming generation) the Prius has sacrificed performance, styling, and other things that many people care about in order to get maximum fuel economy, it’s not unreasonable for some people to put this car pretty much at the bottom of their list of desirable cars.

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The Prius has sacrificed performance, styling, and other things that many people care about in order to get maximum fuel economy, it’s not unreasonable for some people to put this car pretty much at the bottom of their list of desirable cars.

I think you are talking about the 2019-2022 Prius.

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The 2023 Prius is a different story.

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Without reading everything, the lipstick on a pig comes to mind… features are like lipstick. You can load up a Kia with cheap features but it is still a Kia. People seem to demand a lot of features, electronic, graphic, sound systems etc. and I have to believe most of these only cost a few hundred dollars. But in the end it is still just a Kia with the same drive train and the same problems.

In the old days the Chevy biscayne and impala were pretty much the same car, justo more features and better interior. I’m not real crazy about do dads or performance for that matter. Just good driveability, dependability, and use ability. I don’t know if I’m a real enthusiast but I like cars old and young.

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Without reading everything, the lipstick on a pig comes to mind… features are like lipstick. You can load up a Kia with cheap features but it is still a Kia. People seem to demand a lot of features, electronic, graphic, sound systems etc. and I have to believe most of these only cost a few hundred dollars.

I have very mixed feelings about the “lipstick on a pig” argument.

On one part of it, I agree. A Kia is a Kia. A BMW is a BMW. A Ferrari is a Ferrari. A McLaren is a McLaren. And so on. But the whole point of this question is why is that bad? Are people going to take issue that “it is just a Kia”? Why does that refute the claim that Kia should not be compared to BMW/Audi?

And on the part that I was the most confused was the “lipstick on a pig” argument was only used for less expensive automakers. Can we apply that argument to a fully-loaded CLA250 or CLA45 vs a base CLA250. Mercedes-Benz marketed the CLA250 to compete with the Camry/Accord and standard mainstream cars.

But in the end it is still just a Kia with the same drive train and the same problems.

A CarTalk user by the name of Mustangman and I were discussing this yesterday. (He made a great point, sorry if I am bring him up here) He claimed Kia got better because they learned how to build cars from the Japanese. They set up engineering centers in California and Michigan and hired experienced US engineers to develop the cars specifically for the US market. They also dropped billions into Alabama for a US assembly plant.

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Well everyone spends a lot of money on engineers and plants. They also have spent a lot adopting Japanese tqm quality control. But as they say, your results may vary.

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The 1st Kia’s we saw here in the US are better known as the Ford Festiva and Ford Aspire, Hyundai started building cars for the canadian market by reverse engineering the Morris Marina with a new body and engine’s sourced from Mitsubishi. Taking adveantage of their own shipping line. The Hyundai’s and Kia’s of the 80’s and 90’s have given way to better built and designed products where some have been compared to traditional luxury brands. Kia Stinger and the Genesis line for examples.

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Hyundai started building cars for the canadian market by reverse engineering the Morris Marina with a new body and engine’s sourced from Mitsubishi.

First thing I thought of was the Hyundai Excel/Mitsubishi Precis! :open_mouth:

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Forgot to mention the Pony which came before the Excel, the Excel was the first offering for the US market and from my recollection a good basic car.

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Didn’t Fast Lane Car hate the Excel? (I know that video was controversial a bit)

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Most of the competition were built to a low price, the same era as the Subaru Justy and Chevy Sprint not to mention the Yugo. They’ve come a long way since then.

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I think it is ridiculous to compare any vehicle not in the same classification and price range… That makes about as much sense as comparing yourself to the neighbor next door, even if you both were born on the same day in the same hospital… Are you both just as tall, heavy, smart, handsome/beautiful, happy, content, as successful, same occupation, same taste in cloths, etc…

I have a 2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback and the wife has a 2020 Honda Fit, both cost about the same, both are about the same size, both are nearly the same color, but neither is like the other… so comparing them makes no sense. It all depends on what characterics the manufacturer was most concern with… My Toyota is more economical, yet more powerful, the Fit has wonderful cargo space. I cannot even put a paper grocery bag under the hatch over, it’s only 9" deep. And there are a lot more to say, but I won’t… LoL…

Besides the above example, I also have a 2001 Dodge Ram, 2500, Diesel, 4x4, and my neighbor has a 2020 (or so) Ford F-150, 4x4, V-8, and when he got stupid and went 4-wheeling in a field after a long rain, I used my truck to pull him out… My Big Ram has hauled 18,000 lbs cross-country, his F-150 hauls lawn chairs to the beach. I average 15 MPG in the city and 20 on the highway, he get almost 20 in the city and over 25 on the highway. Diesel is about 20-cents more a gallon here… When his engine is idling, you can barely hear it, when my diesel is idling, you have to yell to be heard… But neither he nor I would swap for the other truck…

The only issues worth considering are your wants (large, compact, hauler, etc…), your needs (carry cargo or people, etc…), your preferences (luxurious, austere, etc…).

Buy what you want, what you need, or what you can afford…

tenor

Hey, the Price was Right…

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Oh gee. On my second day of field training I rode around all day in one of those things. Happy to end the day. I rented one of those in Texas once. The sun coming through the back window actually melted the side of my suitcase. Not a fan but the model is nice.

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I am not a car enthusiast, but I think I can understand the person who is a car enthusiast. I am a French horn player. For years I played a horn that wasn’t considered a “professional” model. Since my profession wasn’t music, but an avocation, I thought the horn suited my purpose. I played first horn in community orchestras and bands. When the valves of the horn leaked so badly that playing fast passages became mushy, I replaced the horn with a higher quality instrument. About three years ago, I was offered a really professional horn at a great price. I was going to turn it down because at my age, I don’t know how many years I can continue to play, but a friend who also directed the orchestra where I play said, “Go for it. You owe it to yourself to have an instrument you really enjoy”. I bought the horn. It plays like a dream.
Even though I am not a car enthusiast, I do understand a person who likes a luxury car or a sports sedan, just as I really like the high level horn I purchased. While the first horn I owned served me well through many performances, this professional quality horn pleases me with its tone quality. I drive a Toyota Sienna minivan. I can understand a person who likes a luxury vehicle which the Sienna is not. I can understand a car enthusiast who appreciates the handling qualities of a BMW.

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I am a French horn player. For years I played a horn that wasn’t considered a “professional” model. Since my profession wasn’t music, but an avocation, I thought the horn suited my purpose. I played first horn in community orchestras and bands. When the valves of the horn leaked so badly that playing fast passages became mushy, I replaced the horn with a higher quality instrument. About three years ago, I was offered a really professional horn at a great price. I was going to turn it down because at my age, I don’t know how many years I can continue to play, but a friend who also directed the orchestra where I play said, “Go for it. You owe it to yourself to have an instrument you really enjoy”. I bought the horn. It plays like a dream.

Hey man, someday you will be a great musician! :slight_smile: I might need to watch French horn videos and maybe try playing one someday. (If I get the chance)

I drive a Toyota Sienna minivan. I can understand a person who likes a luxury vehicle which the Sienna is not. I can understand a car enthusiast who appreciates the handling qualities of a BMW.

I understand, as a person who has driven and owned both luxury cars and mainstream cars. But the thing is that some car enthusiasts use “handling qualities of a BMW” or similar as an excuse that BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and other luxury brands should be immune to being compared to mainstream cars or mainstream car brands.

In the videos about the Kias I said in the post, “handling qualities of a BMW” was irrelevant to the argument the reviewer was making. The features is what was being talked about.

If the “car enthusiasts” you mention make an irrelevant argument to why a luxury brand should not be compared to a mainstream brand, what’s the point?

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A Toyota or Kia and a Mercedes or BMW can both have the same listed features. They would appear to be the same.

The Kia can be stolen with a screw driver and needle nose pliers in less than 1 minute. The BMW can’t.

If Mercedes or BMW has a problem with uncommanded acceleration, they’ll probably fix the problem. Toyota will lie about it for years and only fix it when legally forced to.

The Kia and Toyota have the minimum seat belt load limiters and weak airbags to protect the 175 pound crash dummy at 38 MPH. The minimum required. The Mercedes and BMW probably go beyond minimum requirement.

The paint on the BMW might be probably better. You won’t notice that until 10 or 20 years later. The windshield on the Kia might crack more easily. There are so many little things that aren’t going to be noticed right away when comparing two new cars from different companies. The rubber on the steering wheel might rot in 10 years on the Toyota or Kia.

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The price is the most important thing. This is very much why there are luxury comparisons vs mainstream car comparisons in the first place. Those buyers cross-shop by price.

Would you rather have a Mercedes-Benz with no options for $39K or a Toyota with all the options for $37K? (If features is your biggest factor in buying cars)

The Kia can be stolen with a screw driver and needle nose pliers in less than 1 minute. The BMW can’t.

This was a problem fixed by Kia a while back?

The Kia and Toyota have the minimum seat belt load limiters and weak airbags to protect the 175 pound crash dummy at 38 MPH. The minimum required. The Mercedes and BMW probably go beyond minimum requirement.

That argument doesn’t make any sense if we are talking about today. Toyota and Kia can make safe cars. How many Toyotas got an IIHS TSP? How many Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs got a IIHS TSP?

The paint on the BMW might be probably better. You won’t notice that until 10 or 20 years later. The windshield on the Kia might crack more easily. There are so many little things that aren’t going to be noticed right away when comparing two new cars from different companies. The rubber on the steering wheel might rot in 10 years on the Toyota or Kia.

If you are talking about a Toyota/Kia from 30 years ago, fine. What about 2023 models? And not to mention, Mercedes-Benz’s infamous creaking? Mercedes-Benz can have bad quality too?

If Mercedes or BMW has a problem with uncommanded acceleration, they’ll probably fix the problem. Toyota will lie about it for years and only fix it when legally forced to.

Evidence or proof of Toyota lying?

No hate on any brand, just quoting some research.

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@Triedaq is older than me so don’t expect him to be on tv soon. I feel the same way about my dewalt surface planer. The best there is like the French horn. Yeah $600 to use once a year but how many years have I got? He’s a great mathematician and statistician though and the horn playing is now improving. Tools. Gotta have tools. :grinning:

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In my opinion, one thing that caused the demise of the GM upscale brands, Pontiac and Oldsmobile, was that in the late 1960s, these brands were no more luxurious than the Chevrolet Caprice. In 1978, GM was installing, without telling anyone, Chevrolet engines in some Oldsmobiles, because the Oldsmobile engines were used in some Cadillac models. I think.buyers of upscale cars wanted something more than a nameplate.

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Yep there were some internal differences in the engines I guess. I checked my 74 out to make sure I had an olds engine. I guess I never compared it with a Chevy but the quality seemed to be there. We’d take it on a long trip and at 70 there was hardly any road noise at all. Drive all day and never get tired. Just a good ole car. It was a little noisier after 200,000 miles but no oil usage.

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