Seems everything uses Torque to Yield bolts and seems thats when alot of head gasket issues started. What have they really done for us, I remember building a 350 Chevy for my camaro and tightening down the head bolts as I seen fit without the aid of a torque wrench let alone the TTY nonsense, (tighten, then back off then tighten 15 degrees but only of there’s a full moon, stand on your head and gargle, retighten bolts ect..)
I never had any trouble with good old fashioned head bolts.
So sell me on TTY bolts, what makes them so great? How have we profited from them? Because the truth be told, I don’t believe we have. Give me a good old iron block with iron heads and real non stretch bolts and ill show you an engine that won’t have head gasket failures.
Well, first of all, not all bolts which require a torque and angle tightening procedure are actually torque-to-yield. Some are not. For example, the head bolts on the Chrysler 2.2L and 2.5L 4-cylinder engines, which were used in the K-cars, Spirit, Shadow, etc. are not intentionally torque-to-yield. In fact, the factory service manual suggests checking to see if the bolts have stretched and reusing if they haven’t. Of course, the cost of a set of new bolts is minuscule compared to the time and effort required to disassemble and reassemble the engine, so most people would just buy new bolts.
Second, you cannot tell if a bolt is intentionally torque-to-yield by looking at it. Even bolts which are not intentionally torque-to-yield can stretch if overtightened, or if the engine overheated.
Third, older engines with a closed-deck cast iron block are more forgiving. I have disassembled and reassembled these kind of engines, and although I had the (aluminum) cylinder head professionally resurfaced, I cleaned up the engine block mating surface with a sanding block and 600 grit sandpaper, followed by 800 grit and then 1000 grit. Although I achieved the necessary smoothness, I certainly exceeded the curvature limit, measured in thousandths of an inch, and yet all of these engines ran fine and all but one is still in use (and that vehicle was destroyed in an accident). You wouldn’t get away with this technique on a modern engine with an open-deck design.
Nope, cars and engines are more reliable today. Plenty of smoking V8s back in the day, and blown head gaskets. I’m aware of no facts that support your opinion. And you consider a 1980 design (the 3.8) modern?
I had a 305 i got so hot it quit running, once I filled it with coolant after it cooled down I ran it for years after that will no ill effects. Try that with a modern aluminum butter engine.
The 3.8 was a modern engine in the 1980s. The Taurus was the future back then, everyone praised it despite it being nowhere as good as the Granada it replaced.
OMG are you freaking kidding me?? Those 1st gen Taurus 3.0 and 3.8 engines and maybe later engines blew head gaskets if you looked at them wrong, you could have one start to over heat at the beginning of a typical off ramp and by the time you could get the car stopped and turned off, it had blown the head gasket already… I did a ton of those engines, t-stats failed a lot, and those stu-pid heater hoses that blew often… Other than that, not to bad…I almost bought one…
The later in my career it got, the less head gasket failure I saw as a whole, meaning engines were lasting longer and longer, sure, some had issues, but that has been the case forever basically…
Not all TTY setting use stretch bolts, but all stretch bolts (to my knowledge) use TTY settings…
In conventional torque methods, up to 85-90% of the applied torque is used to overcome friction in the threads and under the bolt head, leaving only a small percentage to create the actual clamping force. This friction can be highly inconsistent due to varying lubrication, thread condition, and tool accuracy, leading to “clamp load scatter”. TTY tightening, typically using a combination of initial torque and a final angle of rotation (torque-angle method), makes the final clamping force largely independent of these friction variables because the tension is determined by the material properties at its yield point.
So basically, turning a threaded fastener into a threaded hole x amount of degrees, is way more accurate than just torquing it to a predetermined setting… Degrees does not have to overcome friction…
My Harley 2006 EG has a few TtY bolts that I have used over. Haven’t had a problem yet (107,000 mi). The Harley service manual mentions Lock-Tite a lot, I do use that (Harleys shake!).
I remember YEARS ago, on the radio show, Tom and Ray would tell people to not even think about it and just replace the head bolts every single time the head came off for whatever reason
As I said, the Taurus was the future back then. People praised them. Not me, I knew they were headgasket blowing, transmission eating junk.
Trying to replace a legendary car such as the Granada was no easy task but the Taurus should have been at least as good as the Granada, not worse.
President Obama drove a Granada on which he looks back favorably on. If it was good enough for Mr. President well then its good enough for me. True proven 1960s technology, no wacky engine designs. Just pure American Iron that stood the test of time.
Been awhile and don’t remember all the details, but the planets would basically explode for the lack of a better word and crack the case above the filter, just pop the pan and drop the filter (might have been able to see it with the filter installed) and look for the crack/split case and new it it was a total loss or not… lol
I was one of the 1st ones (in Nashville anyway) to put a 3.0 trans behind a 3.8 engine, everyone said it wouldn’t fit for one reason or another, it fit and worked like a charm, don’t know how long it lasted as it soon went to the action… lol
So that means that the stronger (?) 3.8 trans would fit behind the 3.0 engine if needed… don’t remember if the axles went with the trans or stayed with the car now… But every transmission builder/shop said they would not interchange…
But I worked on many hundreds of those cars when doing the rental car thing… Auto tech school aside, I learned more doing high mileage rental cars than anything else, you’d be surprised at some of the stuff I did to cars coming/going from/to auto actions…
legendary and Granada shouldn’t be in the same sentence, imo
And I believe you’re mistaken about something else, as well
I seem to recall the 1st generation Tore___ was supposed to replace the mid-size Ford LTD, not the Granada . . . I think the Granada name had been dropped like a piece of garbage a few years earlier
Speaking of advances in cars, watched the latest Motor Week show, they tested the GTI and GTI R. For an 11% increase in displacement (2.0 L vs. 1.8 L), the 2025 GTI puts out three times the hp of the ‘83 I had (about 240 vs 80), goes to 60 in half the time, AND gets better mpgs. The GTI R puts out about 320 hp from 2.0 L! And still gets better mpgs than my ‘83.
The 3.8L? Absolutely. The 3.0L nope, it was one of the more reliable Ford V6’s. It didn’t have any real chronic issues. The AXOD transmissions were pretty much garbage though.
American Iron that stood the test of time.
a few years earlier