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Should word get out that Toyota/Honda no longer makes the best cars?

I have 2007 Toyota Corolla CE, it’s a fine car and I bought it basically because I didn’t know enough about cars back then or about how my driving habits/taste would develop (that is to say, that I would prefer a more engaging ride. The car I should have gotten would probably be the Mazda3.)

Anyways, for the driving public who generally treat cars as appliance and want the best value, I think it can be said that Toyota/Honda aren’t tops even in that category. Probably, Hyundai offers the BEST value: You get more standard equipment, you probably pay less overall, and with a better warranty.

The driving public should consider also Ford.

What offends me most is the used car market for Toyota/Honda, they are seriously overpriced. I have an interest in keeping my car overpriced when I want to sell it but it’s bad for the buyers.

The used car buyer should consider cars OTHER than Toyota/Honda, a used Ford or Hyundai can be had for much much less. Toyota/Honda used car sellers are very uppity, myself included.

So, why reward Toyota and Honda for mediocrity?

Anyways, I hope Tom and Ray inform their listeners to seriously consider alternatives to Toyota and Honda.

Supply, meet Demand. Demand, this is Supply. Human economic behavior is never entirely rational.

Tom and Ray support Subaru because Subaru buys advertising time on their show. (or has in the past) They occasionally recommend Ford, Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota vehicles to listeners/callers.

Fact: Honda, Ford, Hyundai, and Toyota all make some great cars and some not-so-great cars.

Opinion: One of the above is “better” than another of the above. Your beliefs do not turn your opinions into facts.

You Didn’t Mention GM. Have You Checked Out A Chevrolet Cruze ?

My wife’s Impala also came with their 36 month / 36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and 60 month / 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.

CSA

"Should word get out that Toyota/Honda no longer makes the best cars?"
You Mean At One Time They Did . . . Or Were They Perceived As Being Best ?
Define “Best”

There’s been little or no change in the high quality of Honda and Toyota, but the others are catching up quickly. I’ve chosen Ford products lately.

The problem is that perception wise Hondas and Toyotas have been given a free pass for decades even while suffering the same Recalls, TSBs, and chronic problems as any of the Big Three cars. This goes clean back to the 70s.

No doubt you’ve hear of emissions and carburetion prone 70s/80s Big Three cars what with Lean Burn, Feedback carburetors, 2 miles of vacuum hose attached to a dozen thermovalves and solenoids, etc, etc, etc.
While the Big Three to this day is still bashed over this system, the Asian cars went through the exact same problems.

It’s somewhat amusing to see someone bash a Big Three car over a Recall and claiming it to be the sign of poor engineering and/or shoddy workmanship but no way in hxxx will they admit that a Recall for the same problem on a Toyota or Honda is due to poor engineering and/or shoddy workmanship.

I agree there are a lot of good choices out there that perform equal to or better than Honda/Toyota products. But, if ten years from now, Honda and Toyota 2011 products have proven to have held up as well as any other car made during this time, they would still be hard hard to beat. I don’t deny there are excellent products out there. It’s just that the Fords and GMs have never given me the service and reliability over time they as well as my Subarus and Mazda. “show me the money” that is, long term reliability of any product built in the US and I’m on it like white on rice regardless of who makes it.

If you take a look for the past 30+ years…yup…Honda and Toyota do have recalls and do have TSB’s and other problems…but no where near the rate Ford and GM had.

While GM and Ford have made progress recently…we’ll see if it holds up long term. Especially if it starts to interfere with those HUGE bonus checks the executives were use

If you take a look for the past 30+ years…yup…Honda and Toyota do have recalls and do have TSB’s and other problems…but no where near the rate Ford and GM had.

While GM and Ford have made progress recently…we’ll see if it holds up long term. Especially if it starts to interfere with those HUGE bonus checks the executives were use getting.

Each manufacturer has problems…And for many people GM and Ford are fine cars…Most people don’t keep their cars past 100k mile mark…and very few keep them past the 200k mile mark…When you get into the 300k miles it’s a different ball game. After the great years of the 60’s and early 70’s of GM and Ford…the the dark years…I gave up on them…Won’t go back until I see major changes in how they run their company (which is the basic problem of why they have problems). Been burnt few times by GM…relatives have been burnt by Ford and Chryco…Our Toyota’s, Honda and Nissan’s have seen less then 1/10th the number of problems and repairs as our GM/Ford’s and Chryco’s.

The lag between perception and reality is at least10 years!!! That’s why there are still people who believe that even Volvos are good cars.

If I had to buy a new compact car tomorrow, it would be a Hyundai Elantra, a Mazda3, or a Toyota Corolla. I like Civics too, but they are too noisy for my taste. The Ford Focus is OK, but does not have the life expectancy of the others.

My judgement is based on reading all the available reliablity data and my own experience of owning a 2007 Toyota Corolla, which has not had a single problem and has been very cheap to maintain.

Agree that I would not buy a USED Honda or Toyota, since there are cars nearly as good for a lot less money, such as Mazda and Hyundai. But based on what I’ve learned about GM, Ford and Chrysler, I would only buy a used Ford Fusion, low mileage Focus if I was trading every 4 years, or a Buick, if I wanted that size car.

Beliefs are best restricted to church matters.
Here on earth you have to deal with cold, hard hacts, such as personal experience, good statistics, and the recommendations of experienced mechanics.

My '09 Pontiac G6 has about 70K on it with 100,000 mile warrenty. I have had to do nothing on it except oil changes, filters, and belt. Fun to drive, seats fold down for cargo, all the options, and 33 mpg. Hard to beat.

My '08 Acura is a great car too and has about 38K with a 50K warrenty. It has been back for minor warrenty work though at least three times and needs to go in again for the TPMS that screws up whenever someone is in the back seat.

I’m satisfied with both but GM dealers are everywhere if you need help.

“What offends me most is the used car market for Toyota/Honda, they are seriously overpriced. I have an interest in keeping my car overpriced when I want to sell it but it’s bad for the buyers.”

I’m not offended. I just won’t buy a used Toyota or Honda. There are plenty of good cars out there. It’s more a matter of how the car was cared for than who designed and built it.

And ‘offends me’ is wrong. At whom is the OP offended? High prices on used cars are set by the market, not the maker.

My 1976 Chevy Nova got me stuck on the highway 100’s of miles from home…twice.
My 1975 Civic did it once.
My 1981, 1985 and 1988 Accords never let me down.

As I’ve stated previously, anyone who thinks the Asian cars don’t have the same problem with Recalls, TSBs, and chronic problems that are never mentioned in a Recall or TSB should go to work for an Asian car dealer for 10 years or so.

There are many chronic problems that never make the Recall or TSB list nor do they make the news. From minor to major, they all suffer.

Also as I’ve stated, I consider Toyota and Hondas to be fine cars but no better than anything else. It does stew me to some extent to be eyebrow deep in chronic problems on a certain make of Asian car and hear news blurbs about the same problems on a Big Three produced car.

If you don’t see them on a regular basis then you have no idea what’s going on.

You can see by the responses that reputation is as important as fact. But over time, reputation follows fact. That’s why some of us are not ready to buy a Hyundai, Kia or GM other than their Isuzu powered trucks until the dust settles. Fiat partial ownership will have most of us waiting in the wings for years as well for Chrysler. Ford deserves credit for staying the course in their F150, Fusions, Mustangs and other models over the years with quality second to non. They are winning over our extended family as a couple of recent purchases have already been made. I don’t think we are too far out of the norm.

Now our yard were we live though on a dirt road just has Toyotas, not because the are better, but we needed a compact truck and trip SUV that will go off road and haul in comfort and NEITHER GM of FORD offer these products. We dumped our Honda for the same reason. Does Ford GM make a vehicle comparable to the Tacoma, RAV or 4Runner in performance and capacity, forgetting the quality ? Try an Escape out the same day you try a RAV v6 and with a straight face tell me they are equal; even assuming equal reliability.

Toyotas success is predicated as much on the plethora of models they offer as any perceived notion of quality. So, even accepting Ford is equal quality, many of us are still waiting while the Explorer is dummied down to a maul hauler and the Ranger continues to be a gazillion years behind the times.

So before we debate about who makes the best cars, lets talk about models; I’ll take my full size truck as a Ford or GM/Chevy diesel any day. Other areas, wait and see.

I was very satisfied with the Chevrolet Uplander I bought in 2006. We sold it to our son last year who needed a better vehicle. I would have purchased another Uplander to replace it, but GM doesn’t make a minivan. I purchased a Toyota Sienna as a replacement. While I like the Sienna, I don’t know that it is really any better than the Uplander. I rode in the Uplander when we visited my son this week-end. So far, it has racked up 80,000 miles with no problems. The body is as tight as ever with no rattles and everything works.

A word regarding the high price of used cars: send your letters of thanks to

President Obama
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20500

The Cash For Clunkers program exascerbated an already developing (due to the economy) supply vs. demand problem in the used car market. $2.8 billion of your tax dollars were used to remove 690,000 vehicles from the used car market, driving prices up.

Circuitsmith, 1976 was 35 years ago, before the internet even. Get over it. My '74 Olds got to 240K with nary a problem and never left me stranded. Maybe 74 was a better year than 76.

Same Mountainbike, You want to blame Obama for that too? Has nothing to do with people keeping their cars till they fall apart and reduced new car sales? I traded my Buick in with 530K on it. Would have made a great used car for someone huh?