“One pending is US dealers.”
Do you mean that US VW dealers have filed a class action lawsuit against VW corporate . . . ?
Yeah, one of the law firms is talking with dealers but nothing yet. Of course dealers are reluctant to sue VW.
But with class action suits, I believe most of the dough goes to the lawyers that file them. As a consumer, I feels you are always on your own. Big corporations separate you from your hard earned money and move on.
I also feel that at the end, if VW needs a lot of $$, the German government will bail them out. Another car company with a two letter logo.
It looks like Bosch was responsible for the cheat (deceit) software but warned VW that it was illegal to use in production cars and should only be used for testing.
That sounds like CYA baloney. During Prohibition, they used to sell “grape juice kits” that explicitly warned the consumer: “Whatever you do, DON’T set them in the corner of your cellar for three weeks or so…because then you would have WINE!”
This seems similar at first blush.
Yeah maybe but the article I think is incomplete. It doesn’t explain how they go from software for testing to actually installing in production cars. Surely there would have had to have been a licensing agreement for the software if they went into production. So Bosch either knew or got defrauded themselves making it even worse.
Also it appears they knew the only way to make the engines meet the standards was to spend the extra $300 per car for the Adblue system and VW was in a crash cost cutting mode. Truly a stupid business decision but then they were trying to really be a force in the US.
So I remain on the fence. Truly a stupid move and it will be expensive but I still question how much actual damage was done to the environment because of it. Yeah it broke the law, but benefited consumers, but increased emissions. I’d like to know how many miles the cars actually drove and how much more actual pollution was caused, regardless of the EPA regulations.
Maybe what we need is similar to the 9/11 commission to determine payments and dispense them instead of the years of lawsuits where only the lawyers benefit. I dunno.
(what did chrome just do?)as was rubbed in my face more then once"the law,is the law",so ante up VW.
@Caddyman, the lawyers will get rich enough to retire on this debacle. Guaranteed.
Out of all parties involved, I think only the lawyers will be the clear winners ,. . .
I understand when people say the law is the law but as my law prof used to say “there is nothing more indefinite than a law”. That’s why there are lawyers and judges.
It is clear to me now though that it was intentional and not an accident so the whole premeditated part of it makes it worse same as in murder. Planning and killing someone is worse than just killing someone in the heat of the moment. Guy on the radio today said Germany will never let VW go down so maybe there will be some behind the scenes discussions between Germany and DC. It might start out with “you know all that gold that you have been storing for us since the war? We may need some of that back to save VW.” Of course the gold is not there anymore and no one knows what happened to it so maybe a deal can be made. Of course Europe is another matter but right now Germany seems to have the upper hand on them too.
This is an even bigger problem for VW in Europe, many more sold there, very high priority on emissions. It’s bad here, worse there, for VW.
This was quick. The latest, from Reuters:
"Volkswagen announced plans on Tuesday to refit up to 11 million vehicles and overhaul its namesake brand following the scandal over its rigging of emissions tests.
New Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said the German carmaker would ask customers “in the next few days” to have diesel vehicles that contained illegal software refitted, a move which some analysts have said could cost more than $6.5 billion.
Europe’s biggest carmaker has admitted cheating in diesel emissions tests in the United States and Germany’s transport minister says it also manipulated them in Europe, where Volkswagen sells about 40 percent of its vehicles."
@texases
"New Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said the German carmaker would ask customers “in the next few days” to have diesel vehicles that contained illegal software refitted, a move which some analysts have said could cost more than $6.5 billion."??
I’m Doing Some Math In My Head. Does That Work Out To About 600 Bucks Per Vehicle?
Dealers could begin salivating. I think dealers love the chance to get cars into their shop and then suggest repairs/maintenance “…while we’ve got your car in here, already…” Who wants to drive away in a car badly needing repair(s) or one unsafe to drive, right?
Plus salespeople like folks milling around the showroom area while waiting for transportation or service work to be performed. I’m sure a certain number will look at new cars and take advantage of a “Special Sale.”
That latest GM recall to modify keys had to be a big profit generator. Net result for expensive recalls of this nature could show up as a wash or profit, rather than a liability. This could explain the quick to decision to “do what’s right” (wink, wink).
CSA
The 450,000 cars in the U.S. that are effected will receive recall notices in a few days so the e-prom in the engine management system can be replaced or reprogrammed…The cars will then comply with U.S. diesel emissions standards. There may be a “small reduction” in performance and fuel mileage…
would ask customers
Not require, but ask.
I wonder if the regulators in the US will make that a bit stronger to ensure compliance…no recall fix, no registration. Otherwise, I see no real compelling reason for people to line up to do it other than “it’s the right thing to do for the environment”.
Word of caution to owners. If VW offers recall, read what you sign so that you haven’t waived any other rights.
This is especially important in states where emissions tests must be passed and an owner may be under pressure to do something to get compliance.
@TwinTurbo : Typically, states, not the feds, handle registration. (Though don’t put it past Washington to play games with funding to exert de facto control, like they did with 55 mph speed limit and 21 drinking age.
My take is, based on comments and inquiries here, is that most TDI folks are interested foremost in the mpg and maybe secondarily in the emissions-but only to justify their high mpg. The owners therefore I believe are going to be very very reluctant to have their computers re-flashed with the new settings. It might tug at their hearts a little, but I think their quest for high mileage is going to be stronger. Otherwise why in the world would they have bought a TDI anyway?
So it seems the quick, simple fix for VW is to simply replace the software. However, they already concluded that the only way to make the diesels meet the US high standards was to use the Adblue system. So even the re-flash is not going to do it. The original extra cost in manufacturing was $300. What it would cost to retrofit, plus the additional 2 cent per mile consumer cost for the urea, is anyone’s guess.
I’m sure some states that do emissions testing could withhold approval for licensing, forcing owners to do something or park the cars. But that would mean that the testing stations would need to do test drive tail pipe testing. Plus not all states do testing.
No easy way out but again I ask what the actual additional total pollutants were or are being discharged? Not the meter readings, but the actual additional total releases and how that might compare to a day at a Chinese steel mill.
When States perform Emission testing they also plug in to the OBD to check for diagnostics. I am pretty sure when they do this they will be able to read what software version is in the ECM to determine if the recall was performed.
I wonder about the hit to performance. Consider that the turbo boost will probably be trimmed down; that EGR will be trimmed upward; and that the maximum diesel injection will be trimmed down. The addition of a AdBlue NOx converter and an upgraded Diesel Particle Filter will take away from the exhaust energy needed to spin the turbo. That is going to take some guts out of the small Diesel engine. When you bought your TDI you probably test drove the demonstrator and concluded that it had adequate pickup. Now you will probably be faced with a ‘DOG’ that can barely get out of its own way.
I would be upset at VW’s machinations to make a streetable Diesel vehicle that cannot measure up legitimately as well as making owners complicit in excessive NOx and particulate emissions.
The biggest hit will be to full-throttle acceleration. It just won’t be there anymore…