You know, it kind of disturbs me when I see EPA regulations described as "onerous."
Well, golly, many hard-working coal-miners in my home state have lost good, middle-class jobs as a direct and proximate result of recent EPA regulations. I know them; I talk to them; I do their taxes. It "kind of disturbs me" that the regulations that cost these hard-working brothers and sisters their jobs are NOT seen as "onerous," by ANY American: I was under the impression that "we all had each other's back."
The climate is on its way to changing such that life as we know it today will be vastly more difficult to come by. Low-lying coastal areas will disappear, storms will be much more destructive, droughts, higher temperatures, and storms will contribute to a decline in global food supply, etc etc. Now, I'm bumping up against 40, so I may not live long enough to see the full effects of this disaster, but people younger than I am will.
You're describing CO2 emissions. VW was charged with increasing NO(x) emissions. The "cheat code" employed didn't up CO2 emissions; if anything, it decreased them. Thus, I fail to see relevance here.
I have an ecological conscience; I feel that this nation has always been a rugged land of rugged individuals, and we should preserve as much of both as possible. I count President Theodore Roosevelt and Edward Abbey as influences…not that I want to blow up the Glen Canyon Dam, mind you! I think the current “target fixation” on CO2 is wrong-headed, doomed, overtly aristocratic/anti-labor, and siphoning finite ecological resources away from stuff like wildlife conservation and watershed protection. (Other than that, it’s a swell idea! )
Shadow, I wholeheartedly disagree. But we’ve already had that debate. More than once.
VW knowingly and intentionally put a whole lot of expertise, design, and money into intentionally and illegally violating U.S. standards, and they should pay a heavy price.
I’m confused. This is my stance as well. What exactly do we disagree about?
@meanjoe75fan I’m surprised you’re using coal miners, one of the most historically exploited and abused workforce segments in our country’s history, as an example of people who are being unfairly abused by government regulations.
They could probably make a lot of money cleaning nuclear reactors without protective suits too - are OSHA’s onerous regulations unfairly targeting them there as well?
Coal is a dying industry, by necessity. Whether they have to find new jobs because there isn’t any coal left or because burning coal is no longer ecologically feasible, they’re going to have to find new jobs. I do not, frankly, think we should destroy the planet’s capacity to be habitable to humans and other species in order to preserve some jobs in Kentucky and West Virginia.
You're describing CO2 emissions. VW was charged with increasing NO(x) emissions. The "cheat code" employed didn't up CO2 emissions; if anything, it decreased them. Thus, I fail to see relevance here.
It’s related because the EPA is the target of short-sighted “overly-onerous regulation” bashing for both substances.
With respect, shadow, we disagree about the EPA regulations having become onerous as well as the climate change issues. I believe the EPA regs have become not only onerous but counterproductive, and I have doubts about many of the climate scares I read about. However, as I mentioned, we’ve had very lengthy threads debating the subject and there’s no point in having another. We simply disagree on these issues. Probably always will.
VW’s actions in knowingly and intentionally violating our laws is an area that I think we agree fully on. Although perhaps for slightly different reasons.
Will VW retrofit 11 million vehicles with urea injection and converters?? Because without those key diesel emissions parts, no software change will reduce their NOx emissions enough to meet U.S. diesel emissions standards…
That’s the huge question. The researcher that found the problem thinks a software fix might work, but at a cost to MPGs and, I’d think, power. Otherwise VW would have done it already. Here’s a good article that explains how VW got found out a year ago: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150923/OEM11/150929933
"I’m surprised you’re using coal miners, one of the most historically exploited and abused workforce segments in our country’s history, as an example of people who are being unfairly abused by government regulations.
They could probably make a lot of money cleaning nuclear reactors without protective suits too - are OSHA’s onerous regulations unfairly targeting them there as well?
Coal is a dying industry, by necessity. Whether they have to find new jobs because there isn’t any coal left or because burning coal is no longer ecologically feasible, they’re going to have to find new jobs. I do not, frankly, think we should destroy the planet’s capacity to be habitable to humans and other species in order to preserve some jobs in Kentucky and West Virginia."
Its called group think and part of the group think is the marketing strategy of dire events if we don’t do something drastic right away. The radicals blow the trumpet and we should all salute without question.
Coal was not dying and was a growing industry. And while miners in general have had their problems, they were doing very well until the industry was shut down. Maybe take a drive through WV sometime or talk to some of the folks with tears in their eyes about how their life has been turned upside down and for what?
And while miners in general have had their problems, they were doing very well until the industry was shut down.
Says WHO??? The death rate was among the highest in the WORLD. Even higher then Industrial workers in China.
Is the ONLY answer conservatives have are…you should be grateful that we ALLOW you to have this EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY AND DANGEROUS job. Granted the risks were unknowns when we first started mining coal…but they became very apparent very shortly. If miners had another choice for another job they would choose it in a minute. But many don’t.
I have no problem getting rid of an industry that’s as dangerous and unhealthy as this.
Not to mention the problems coal pose on our environment…from the Acid rain to the coal ash fields that leak and break.
As VW’s stock price has taken a nose dive in recent days, this might actually be a good time to BUY. It’s up today from its rock bottom. The trick is to figure out when its absolute bottom will happen.
“I have no problem getting rid of an industry that’s as dangerous and unhealthy as this.”
There are lots of dangerous occupations like farming, truck driving, sailing, military, etc. I don’t think it should be up to the feds to eliminate all dangerous occupations. Like they said first they came for the miners and I said nothing because I was not one, then they came for me and there was no one left.
“Winterkorn has not lost his job yet according to the article you referenced. There are a few rumors that he is gone, but they were denied. You might be right, but it hasn’t happened yet.”
Air pollution is a major hazard. It increases risk of cancer, heart disease and strokes. As much as I am not a big fan of the governments regulating everything to the T, I also know if you leave everything up to the capitalist manufacturers, we all will suffer, so EPA does serve a purpose.
I guess when there were no regulations, there was a good excuse to produce polluters. What VW has done is well beyond unethical IMO.
The big problem seems to be NOx emissions…This pollutant results when combustion temperature is too high…The fix might involve turning down the turbo a little, opening the waste-gate a little sooner. Most truck engines today use “DEF” , Diesel Emissions Fluid, and some sort of catalytic converter to break down the NOx…But I don’t think VW’s TDI engines use this technology…
Well thanks to Duke energy,around 39000 tons of coal ash ended up in the Dan River,I have a musician friend who was invited to play a gig for some coal mine owners,after the show,He circulated amongst the good ol" Boys,listening to them shocked the daylights out of Him.They invited Him back later to play again,He declined,He was shocked by their atitude.
If miners had another choice for another job they would choose it in a minute. But many don't.
I have no problem getting rid of an industry that’s as dangerous and unhealthy as this.
Typical bourgeois do-gooder mindset that–while failing to walk so much as the length of the hallway in another’s moccasins–feels qualified to make decisions for one’s perceived inferiors. Paternalism at its worst! Obviously much worse-paying jobs exist (such as retail, ahem WalMart…) that aren’t nearly as dangerous: if miners wanted those jobs, they’d go take them, with or without government intervention. Clearly, those workers decided of their own free will, that they’d take the Benjamins and take the risk.
Historically, industrial work has been the best (and almost only) ticket to middle-class living for those without a college diploma. ANY eco-planning that eviscerates US heavy industry is de-facto anti-worker, anti-middle class, and something I cannot support under any circumstance. If “saving the earth” is so important, the onus is on the Greens to come up with a solution creative enough to preserve industry as it preserves the environment.
And besides, this whole “put on a hairshirt and save the world” ethos is unnecessary. EVERY time previously, that a growing population induced an ecological catastrophe…the solution to the problem was an engineering one–we “thought our way” past it. When Cholera made city living untenable–was the solution to say “everybody, defecate less?” Of course not! We engineered plumbing-delivered fresh water, and sanitary sewers. Again, when Malthus pointed out that we were running out of arable land, did we embark on an “everybody, procreate less” bandwagon? No, again, we figured out how to produce nitrogenous fertilizers: we “outsmarted” the problem.
There’s no predicting the future, so I suppose it’s possible the hairshirt might carry the day, but the RATIONAL thing to do is to “go with what brung ya” to this point: find a geo-engineering solution to increased CO2 levels. We know stratospheric aerosols lower heating levels–look into the feasibility of a “DIY Pinatubo” every decade or so. Mitigate the effects, not embark on a doomed “everybody, burn less!” crusade.
But McCrory is not the only member of his administration with close ties to Duke Energy and its Progress Energy subsidiary. Other former Duke/Progress employees who hold high-level positions in North Carolina state government include: http://www.southernstudies.org/2014/02/duke-energys-inside-connections-to-the-mccrory-adm.html
Gosh what a surprise, sorry if you could not drink the water or shower for what was it, 2 or 3 weeks? imagine living through that, at least there was gas for the cars.
PS Mccrory is the governer
I’ve read some estimates that if the hacks are eliminated, up to 1/4 of the engine’s power will disappear. I seriously doubt car owners would put up with that. I’m hearing of a class action lawsuit that would force VW to buy back these cars.
There are lots of dangerous occupations like farming, truck driving, sailing,
Sorry NOT even close. Farming…truck driving…sailing…the only way deaths occur is when accidents happen. Coal miners slowly die from some horrible diseases by just doing their job…NOT ACCIDENTS.
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