It seems to me these are issues they might have gotten away with 10 years ago. Things changed a lot when the Department of Justice announced their intention to prosecute Toyota. GM responded by purging themselves of a large number of recalls that probably would not have occurred 10 years ago. I think their fine was under $1 billion because of that effort. Takata tried to play by the old rules and it got them nowhere.
I sure remember Porsche doing a similar thing many years ago. When the ECU only saw the rear wheels turning from the ABS sensors, it went to the “emissions map” to meet any testing requirements for the US. When all 4 wheels turned, it switched to the power mode.
I Googled it and I cannot find any links but I remember reading about this in Car and Driver magazine and possibly Autoweek in around the late 80’s as the air cooled 911’s came to an end. I don’t think a fine was ever levied because I don’t think the feds ever caught them.
I remember years ago a maker of large trucks gaming the emissions rules to get better gas mileage.
Disabling EGR in that case too.
Foul play,are the rules so onerous that they cannot be met and still make a fair profit?
I for one want everyone to make a decent living,but I have no respect for a cheater.
I was going to call VW management insane, but I see here in a couple of these recent posts that this apparently isn’t unprecedented. Still, it looks pretty bad, and big.
It is both bad and big. Here’s a good summary:
your-guide-to-dieselgate
IMHO they should be hit with the maximum fine possible.This was a blatant well thought out intentional deceit to circumvent the federal emissions laws they must pass in order to market their cars here. The only way to get large corporations to change the way they do things is to hit them where it hurts, their bottom line.
Honda did the same thing some years ago and was fined a few hundred million or something like that.
The details are fuzzy due to the passage of time but I think Honda altered the PCMs so they would ignore misfires and not set codes or illuminate the CEL.
At the end of the day, they’re all guilty of shady practices and backroom politics rules all.
It would be a tough choice, go green or keep mileage and performance. I would go gteen.
When it was discovered that Hyundai’s claimed mpg numbers were higher than they were supposed to be, part of the settlement was that owners get a debit card with the difference between what they spent and what they should have spent on gas for the year. They will get this card reloaded every year until they no longer own the car.
I wouldn’t be surprised if something like this were part of the recall. “We’re gonna turn the emissions controls on and now you get reimbursed for the gas money you shouldn’t have had to spend if we hadn’t lied about the car’s real capabilities.”
I doubt the fine will be the full $18 billion; probably about 10% to 20% of that. But I think they can only reduce the fine to that level by putting the AdBlue system in every TDI involved and providing free AdBlue to at least the original or current owner of the cars as long as they own them. That will be a huge “fine” as well.
Spy shot of the urea system retrofit:
Think its been tried(wont work) makes me grin everytime I hear of some cheapskate who spends the money on a diesel for whatever reason and then rather then add diesel blue at oilchanges tries to fill it up with water or something,then screws something up,I’ve priced the stuff and its not that expensive,if I had a diesel.I would have no qualms whatsoever about adding the urea to the system(I like breathable air too)
Since I’m a fleet mechanic, I work on a LOT of vehicles, which are so massive, that they do not have to meet OBD2 standards
They typically have no rear O2 sensor, thus the catalyst efficiency and condition is NOT monitored
The number of monitors is greatly reduced
They have a very basic evap system
The misfire monitor is calibrated, such that a misfire will NEVER EVER EVER turn on the mil. I’ve run into this numerous times. You could have a dead hole, and the mil will not light up
The PCM is calibrated differently. Even if the large truck happens to have the same engine as is available on a smaller OBD2 truck, the PCM is not the same
There are also many codes which would turn on the mil on an OBD2 vehicle, but not if it is OBD1
There are many, many guys that work on these large trucks, trying to diagnose them, as if they were a OBD2 1500 Silverado, when in fact it is an OBD1 C8500. The fact that it may be 2006 model year and have a 16-pin D-shaped DLC does not make it OBD2. Sometimes, their incorrect belief that these vehicles are OBD2 leads them down the wrong path
If the cars can not be made to meet emissions standards, the EPA could force VW to replace them with cars that do meet these standards…That would drive VW from the American market. This is a BIG deal…
Do we know how the software designers at VW did this trick of theirs?
Some thoughts:
- On one hand, you have a company blatantly circumventing emissions law; OTOH you have a law that is so onerous that it’s virtually impossible to comply with, without drastic impacts on driveability, efficiency, and durability.
- Recent fines against auto firms have been unprecedented in magnitude, definitely creating a disincentive towards doing business, or building factories in the States (when you can go 3rd world and not need to comply). The problem with a “stick it to the Man” attitude is profit-generation is where jobs come from; what creates a middle class; what enables enough taxes to be taken to run any number of progressive government programs: take away the filthy lucre, and (eventually) everything grinds to a stop, and we all are reduced to selling each other useless [crud] at the Dollar Store.
- The ratcheting up of emissions standards seems specious, given the progressive cleaning of air over the last half-century: is it being driven by need, or is it merely the EPA demonstrating “Alpha” status?
- In addition to the “anti-business” nature of how clean air acts have been administered in the…last 7 years or so, they have been hostile to the separation of Federal and State powers as outlined in the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution. (Specifically, I am referring to CARB passing laws that retroactively impose emission standards on commercial diesels engaged in Interstate Commerce.) The current executive branch of the Federal Government has given explicit assent to this practice, claiming that CARB law is, in fact Federal Law, and that some yahoos from the left coast have authority to tell the remaining 50/51 of us how to behave, without any means of voting recourse, outside of moving to CA. Now, two wrongs don’t make a right…but the “first wrong” impairs my ability to give a [hoot] about the “second wrong.”
- As to the above: as law is based on precedent, if these actions against OTR truckers stand, there is no legal reason retroactive emissions couldn’t be applied to all of us. (i.e. “They came for the over-the-road truckers, and I did nothing, as I was not an OTR trucker…”)
- Remember: the VW Diesels in question are vehicles that pass all EU tests with flying colors! I don’t hear people talking about what cesspools London, Paris and Brussels are. (Well, I do hear that about the last one–but somehow I think they AREN’T referring to Diesel emissions, LOL.)
Oh, and if I owned one of the vehicles in question…the only way I’d take it in for “recalibration” would be if a man with a gun, badge and a court order told me I had no choice in the matter!
No gun will be necessary…They will just refuse renewing the license plates until emissions compliance has been demonstrated…Anything with “TDI” on the back of it is going to take a big hit in the used car market…This will be a feeding frenzy for lawyers…
^Plates, et. al. are handled by the States…and my Commonwealth does not emissions test Diesels (even in locales where gassers do get tested) and the sole emission law on the books W/R/T Diesels relates to “visible smoke” (basically a “no rolling coal” law).
I’m assuming the TDI doesn’t “roll coal!” (As long as it’s as clean as a Screamin’ Jimmy Buzzin’ Dozen…)
Anything with "TDI" on the back of it is going to take a big hit in the used car market...As an opportunistic used car buyer--I own a Cobalt!--I can only hope.
The common wealth of VA does,they almost put a local trucking company out of business,when they had ripped most of the emission controls off of their over the road trucks,Tier 4 is supposed to apply to all new diesel powered vehicles(one reason Cat had to back out of the truck engine market for awhile)I think cat is back in,but not making the fuel system for their engines.