Only sports car above would be the Corvette.
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2 doors, 2 seats… better than average performance and handling for its time. Fun to drive, sporty, quick, nimble… MGB, Corvette, Jaguar XKE, Miata, early Thunderbirds
No. These are sports coupes because they have back seats and only the performance versions could, in any sense be considered “sports”. Cars with better performance and handling than average. Fun to drive, sporty, quick, nimble. The Shadow and Beretta (and others like them… Escort, Calais, Cavalier) were based on economy cars so they did not have the solid foundation to make them proper handling cars with the extra power even with stiffer springs and swaybars. The Probe and Celica were designed as sports coupes from the outset.
The Camaro and Firebird are “muscle” cars as is the current Mustang because of the back seats, V8 engines and RWD. The Corvette is a sports car - the 2 seat part again.
4 Doors, 4 (or 5) seat car with above average performance and handling for its era. Think Pontiac G8, Audi S4, Porsche Panamera, Ford Taurus SHO, 1988 BMW 535, Cadillac CTS-V
No, not at all. The car is a whale. Slow and floppy. The only version even worth speaking about would be the '94 Impala SS. Still a whale, but at least a decent performing whale. The car just did not have a frame stiff enough to handle the spring and shock loads for a sport sedan.
I have the same problem with the current Dodge Charger mostly because of its weight. It is fast. It does handle well. But, Boy are they HEAVY! And most versions don’t have big enough brakes for the power they carry.
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The only exceptions to the 2 door 2 seat rule would be the Porsche 911 and 928, plus a few exotics like some Ferraris.
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The 911 has rear seats 
for tiny legless children. Only a bit smaller than a Mustang or Camaro back seat 
There were a few nice Ferrari 2+2s. I’d call the sports coupes but they were virtually the same performance 2 seaters.
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I was surprised it took so long for someone to mention a BMW 335/340. Honestly, these were the first models that I was considering. As you mentioned, the main turn offs for me are the reliability and repair costs. I would love to hear if anyone has first hand experience with these two.
Also, I had not really considered the 5 series, especially in diesel form. Something to look into, so thanks for that!
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Very interesting option. Do you have experience with these? Historically, Lexus is very reliable, relatively cheap to maintain, and have great resale value. Not just a solid sportY sedan, but seems to be a decent long term investment. I would love to hear some input from anyone that has one on the performance and build quality.
I will check that podcast out for sure! I’m not too interested in the WRX or GTI, primarily due to the fact that I would only have these with a manual. Because of where I live, with the amount of traffic, terrible drivers, and awful roads, I would prefer to have an automatic in some form. Heresy, I know, but just not feasible as a daily driver where I am.
Edit: And trust me, I have tried talking myself into getting a manual regardless. I would love a stick E36 M3 or E39 M5, but as a daily driver with my commute, I think I would need surgery after a month.
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More than half the used GTI’s near me are automatics.
Just for another thought, how about a new Mazda3 2.5 turbo, sedan or hatchback, AWD? Mazda makes cars that are fun to drive, and they are generally reliable. I’m seeing some leftover 2021’s in the inventory online.
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Right…but why would you want to drive an auto GTI? My point is not that they do not exist and people buy them in auto. My point is that I would not.
I dunno…there is always the fact that you are driving a Mazda (that is not a Miata). Just an old bias I guess, but they do seem to be much better cars nowadays. Something to look into since my price point could get me a new one. Anyone here have one of the newer turbocharged ones?
Edit: And I know that it was not in my initial prerequisites list, but the Mazda3 is rather small. I’d prefer a size closer to a Mazda6 but the performance just is not there for that model.
What’s the difference between an auto GTI and an auto 3 series or A4?
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Well, in my mind the trade offs in getting an A4 or 3 series in automatic are more tangible. While the driver engagement may suffer in getting the auto versions, the A4 and 3 series still provide better ride comfort, higher quality interiors, more interior space, and better aesthetics (imo) than the GTI. I am no expert so I concede I do not know the intricacies of the transmission systems in each of the mentioned cars. The GTI may even have the best auto tranny, I don’t know. The point is that I want an auto and getting an auto GTI compromises the best thing that the car has going for it, which is the driver engagement. On a level playing field (auto trannys across the board), the 3 series and A4 offer more.
Also, the GTI is not a sedan.
Sadly, I am in the same situation for the same reasons. My last Mustang was a 5 speed manual, my present one is a 6 speed automatic. A very good selectable-shift automatic. but still a automatic.
Our Audi A4 has a terrific 8-speed automatic with a good select shift function if you want to shift it for yourself. Getting a Quattro instead of the FWD model gets the 8 speed instead of a dreaded CVT that is in the FWD model. I did not like how the CVT “shifted”.
Yeah, it is an unfortunate reality. For a long time, I just kept telling myself it’s not so bad - it’s worth it for the driving experience - those stretches of open road make it worth it. But after some years, I had to give up my 5MT Suby because it just drained me. The best option now is to get paddle shifters and pretend like you’re in control.
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Very true. I drove a manual GTI for 12 years, then switched to and auto and haven’t looked back. I guess it would be like getting an auto Miata, just not right to many folks.
Coincidentally, the A4 and auto GTI share pretty much the same engine and transmission.
I have always been a fan of the manual GTI as a hot hatch, but I just feel like it lacks in some areas that have become more important to me personally over the years.
Why are you so hungup on this 5.5 to 60 MPH ? You say you commute in heavy traffic so how often are you going use that 0 to 60 anyway ?
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First of all, I am not hung up on it - I mentioned it once in my initial post. Secondly, why does it matter to you? Thirdly, heavy traffic does not mean there is no opportunity for acceleration. Fourthly, you only eat three times a day, why don’t you just eat oatmeal for every meal instead of a filet mignon steak now and again?
Your logic is faulty and I think you know it. I feel like you are posting just to agitate at this point.
or alternatively, he’s trying to help you remove criteria to make your search easier
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