@ShadowFox
You have some kind of statistic for “many are” . 40%, 30 %. Because otherwise, like every occupation especially in public service, even though it has it’s members who shouldn’t be there, it is a vast exception to the rule. So now, it must be a conspiracy too Involving all elements of local government everywhere ? There are police mis deeds just like there are corporate misdeeds. The difference is, polling the members on this forum and how many have complained about police abuse of power other then all reading the same articles, I count one so far on a level that indicates a violation of civil rights and that was at the discretion of the local DA.
@Rodknox
No one doubts that such occurrences occasionally happen. Now look at the number of times police come into contact with the public…I did at least ten to 15 times a working day in potential enforcement activity with no complaints over ten years. Multiply that times the number of police normally on duty at anyone time and divide that number into the actual number of complaints. Then, @shadowfox, tell me it’s a very high percentage. You might as well complain about things that actually affect your lives then those about being afraid of police. The numbers don’t lie. Police involvement saves more lives, pain and suffering with enforcement then it violates individual personal and civil rights. By a huge margin. Are some of the problem areas surrounding those with high population of minorities and immigration enforcement problems; of course…and, some are found in other places. But, do things like specifically identifying the problem and identifying those few police instead of condeming all police; and then pass appropriate legislation and comprehensive immigration reform. Do that instead of blaming all for the conduct of a few for the problems of many and doing nothing about the real causes.
I can tell you one of the causes of over aggressive activities by some police in some volatile situations. It"s the proliferation of guns that makes law inforcemnt more difficult year by year. It’s making every stop and fearing for their life because assault weapons and semi automatic conceal weapons are literally available to everyone. You walk in their shoes for an 8 hour shift and you will be amazed at the restraint practiced by nearly all but a very small number of the police everywhere on a daily basis. And by small, I mean a small portion of less then one percent.
You have some kind of statistic for "many are" . 40%, 30 %.
It doesn’t have to be anywhere near that percentage to be “many.” There are roughly 800,000 sworn officers in the US as of the 2008 census (source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/csllea08.pdf). As such, even if only 1% of all sworn officers were bad apples, that’s 8,000 officers abusing citizen victims.
So now, it must be a conspiracy too Involving all elements of local government everywhere ?
You are quite liberally putting words in my mouth, and I’m baffled as to where you came up with the notion that I’m a conspiracy theorist.
@ShadowFox
You make claims that police pull people over on spurious charges and initiate proceedings for their benefit ? Because the DA was involved to that end, it now has to be a conspiracy between the police to secure goods …and the DA? What else would you call these accusations as you only know what was reported in the paper with no research of your own. You were quite susync in defining conspiracy by your accusations. For more than one rogue cop to put that all together, it is impossible. It has to be a more than one cop, it has to be the administration and the local DA…it has to be a conspiracy. (an agreement by two or more persons…) that’s exactly what you are implying !
Where in your research did you come up with 1% of the cops being bad…that means 1 in 100 ? You claim 8000 officers might be what, bad apples. Look at @rodknox example and read the rest of my comment in it’s entirety. “bad apples” in your words for these cops, don’t spend their entire day doing bad things. Just as the article implys, one good cop, who might have spent his entire career doing many good things, enough to get decorated for, beat up a women prisoner. He deserved his punishment. But, if he did that or anything bad frequently, he wouldn’t be a cop for long. So, even your so called bad cops have to work in a restrained way and do a decent job the vast majority of the time. Even using your made up 1% are “bad cops” which is totally misleading, discounts that if 1% of the deeds a bad cop did was bad… another too frequent observation, that still leaves .01 % of the activities of the cops violating people’s rights. That’s what is important as an illustration of how frequent that occurs. The actual numbers of contacts violating peoples rights are much lower.
I repeat. Indentify the cause, the perpetrator and deal with it in each case…but I don’t think we should Indemnify the police in general as a civil servant to be feared. It just plays into the hands of fear mongers who want the public to take their eye off the real causes of violence…which is a whole other discussion entirely.
The issue is highly charged and personal for folks in here. When you’re talking about your experience, “keep it on the I”, as they say, and don’t generalize when you don’t have generalizable facts. (I should clarify I am not taking a side; I just notice that opinions are being presented generally, which appears to be causing friction.)
@dagosa: Your insistance on how to distribute blame between the DA and the police officers is a lot like whether an errant pitch gets scored as a “wild pitch” or a “passed ball”: important to the pitcher, the catcher, and their respective agents…but for everybody with professional detatchment, it doesn’t really matter: the ball got loose and the guy on third scored.
You make claims that police pull people over on spurious charges and initiate proceedings for their benefit ?
Are we still talking about the OP article? Because it’s pretty clear that police officers were pulling people over on spurious charges.
Because the DA was involved to that end, it now has to be a conspiracy between the police to secure goods ...and the DA? What else would you call these accusations as you only know what was reported in the paper with no research of your own.
A localized crime ring. I’m not trying to imply that there’s some vast overarching government conspiracy here.
Where in your research did you come up with 1% of the cops being bad....that means 1 in 100 ?
I didn’t. It was a very clear refutation of your “30-40%” requirement.
that still leaves .01 % of the activities of the cops violating people's rights. That's what is important as an illustration of how frequent that occurs. The actual numbers of contacts violating peoples rights are much lower.
I would tend to doubt that. We’re not just talking about over-the-top shakedowns as mentioned in the Tenaha article here. Any time a cop gives an unlawful order (for example, you can’t videotape me in public because of wiretapping laws) or conducts an improper procedure (I can get a warrant but it would go easier on you if you just let me search your car) or writes a spurious ticket (I clocked you at 10 over, no you can’t see the radar, no it hasn’t been calibrated in over a year) then someone is victimized. When fellow cops automatically defend their colleague no matter the actual facts, that victimization is furthered.
but I don't think we should Indemnify the police in general as a civil servant to be feared.
Neither do I. Where did you get the idea that I do?
