Turbocharger Replacement

Maintenance/Repairs
,
21

The turbo blew at 75k miles. Shouldn’t the service shop have identified the problem and repaired the root cause of the issue, before replacing the defective turbo for $3,000 and sending my wife on her merry way…6 hours from home.

I would have been overjoyed if Bob Moore told me what the problem was and how to prevent it from happening again. Could they not have resolved my engine sludge problem? They didn’t even identify the problem. They just slapped a new $1,200 turbo in the car, charged me $3,000 and said nothing. I could have purchased the turbo new online for $600 with a lifetime warranty. Mazda gave me 12k mile warranty. It blew again at just over 12k miles. Oops!

I should not have to tell professional mechanics how to do their jobs. I paid the price for not changing the oil more often when I paid my bill ($3,000).

If they told me what they should have found, but didn’t even look for the smoking gun, and recommended a maintenance schedule based on my vehicles condition…I would not be here right now. AM I WRONG? Why is that so hard for anyone to understand my position on this?

Since they didn’t address the problem or even changed my oil, oil filter or air filter…I’m holding them responsible. I’d be happy if they admitted part of the irresponsibility and was willing to help financially. They are culpable!

All they are doing is blaming me. This is like a bad episode of Dateline or 20-20.

22

Good luck with that.

23

Thanks…

2010 Mazda CX-7
75k miles when the turbo blew.
I’m the only owner.
Almost all interstate in Central Arkansas.
I use a synthetic blend oil
Change oil every 7,500 miles.
Only needs 1/2 quart between oil changes.
My wife drives the SUV 150 miles, to and from work daily…all interstate driving.

My point is…as a reasonable car owner.

  1. The Mazda shop should have diagnosed why the turbo blew the first time.
  2. Fixed the root cause…sludge, by flushing the system to remove the sludge.
  3. Changed the oil, oil filter and air filter along with all the other items on the 3 page invoice. Spark Plugs???.. but not the oil?
  4. Replace the defective turbo.
  5. Explained to us why the turbo originally blew
  6. Provide a service schedule to prevent this from happening again.

AM I WRONG???

The only thing they did was replace the defective turbo.

WTF!

24

I didn’t get a free turbo. The 2nd turbo blew at 12,300 miles…300 miles out of warranty. Now I need an $8,000 motor and a new turbo that will cost me another $3,000. That’s a $11,000 loss.

Did I mention the dealer has a D - BBB rating and is not accredited, with 52 unresolved customer complaints and 9 open customer complaint cases with the Attourney General’s office of Oklahoma?

I spent $38,000 on a new Honda Accord Touring model, 2 door coupe to replace this SUV that I held the title on free and clear. The dealer I purchased the car from in Little Rock is accredited with the BBB and has an A+ rating.

I’m not complaining about paying $3,000 to fix my turbo. I’m raising hell because my engine blew and turbo blew 12k miles after my turbo was repaired by the Mazda dealer.

They never identified a sludge problem, the just slapped a new turbo in and sent my wife home, 6 hours to Arkansas from Oklahom City.

They had my damn car for 7 days. I even needed and requested my oil be changed. Why the hell would anyone leave a car in the shop for a week and not get everthing that needed to be done…repaired and serviced…unless money was an issue…and it wasn’t. Taking time to service our vehicle was a much bigger issue for us than the cost.

This whole thing never should have happened, once my turbocharger was replaced the first time.

25

It cost me $3,000 to replace the defective turbo.
Nothing was free.
They never identified the smoking gun…engine sludge. Never addressed the sludge problem.
I wasn’t aware of a sludge problem.
12k miles after the turbo replacement, I lost an engine and turbo again.
The 2nd turbo was out of warranty by 300 miles. If I bought it myself online, it would have only cost $600…not $1,200 and would have had a lifetime warranty, not a 12k mile warranty.
An $11k loss.
Then I spent $38,000 on a Honda to replace the CX-7 we lost.
What a nightmare!

This service shop is so negligent it’s not funny.
D- with the BBB
52 unresolved customer complaints
9 pending cases with the Oklahoma Attorney General’s office.

My new Honda came from an Arkansas dealer with an A+ BBB rating dating back to 1962. Family owned.
I checked this time! :slight_smile:

26

I changed the oil (synthetic blend) every 7,500 miles. My wife drives 150 daily…all interstate…to work. She’s a hospital administrator.

She drives a minimum of 900 miles each week…including weekend’s.

27

You don’t understand. I was driving the#88 Navy 725 hp stockcar. I turned a hot lap of 184.464 avg. Speed for 1.5 miles in 29.274 seconds. That was no Mazda. My wife drives the Mazda to work everyday.

I wonder if some people even read what I post.

Check it out and turn it up!

28

The Mazda is my wife’s car. I was driving the #88 Navy 725hp stock car. I was just saying my family are all racers. Mom, Dad and Myself. I’ve been Racing 25 years.

Check it out and turn it up!

That ain’t no Mazda!

29

My car had 75k miles when the turbo failed.
I checked the oil level constantly.
I used a synthetic blend.
Changed the oil every 7,500 miles
Or 6 months.
All interstate driving in mild weather climate.
I used 1/2 quart between oil changes.

30

I realize that you may not be overly happy with my comments and with some others but you refer to changing the oil (finally…) at 7500 miles intervals. That is way too long for a turbocharged car unless you want to run the risk of oil sludging, coking, and the problems that it causes.

You state that you now need an 8k dollar motor. That tells me the engine was likely run out of or very low on motor oil. This means operator error which took out the turbo also…
Self - mirror.

As for Bob Moore, I will say this. They’re a massive, multi-franchised chain of dealers which has been around a long, long time.
If you consider the number of transactions that occur versus the number of problems that percentage will be quite small.
Customer complaints and pending cases do not necessarily mean the customer is always right.

Guess you’re pretty hot at me right now so have it…

31

+1
Additionally, I have to wonder whether Mazda specifies synthetic blend oil for their turbo-charged engines, or if they specify “fully” synthetic oil. IIRC, vehicle mfrs have been specifying “fully” synthetic oil for their turbo motors for quite a few years, in order to prevent “coking” from taking place inside those incredibly-hot turbochargers.

This may not apply to Mazda’s maintenance schedule, but I do recall that Subaru reduced the oil change interval for their turbo-charged engines to 3,500 miles quite a few years ago, in addition to specifying ONLY “fully” synthetic oil for those engines.

1 Like
32

The Mazda factory maintenance schedule for that vehicle calls for changing the oil every 7500 miles.

The oil type specified is 5W-20 with ILSAC certification.
I know, for example, that Pennzoil’s GOLD synthetic blend does meet the ILSAC GF-5 certification.
I have not checked other blends.

Kevin: What API certifications are listed on the oil you use?

33

You’re missing the point everyone’s trying to make. The problem is not that the dealer didn’t clean the sludge out. The problem was that the engine was sludged up in the first place. You stated that you come from a racing family. Why do YOU think the engine is sludged up? Why didn’t you clean it out?

34

One extra oil change at turbo replacement would have made no difference to this problem. And cleaning out a sludged-up engine is a HUGE job, not to be included in a turbo replacement.

1 Like
35

Couple of things I noted here. I do feel for you on this and it wasn’t fair to criticize you until you answered the questions that @VCDdriver first asked. It might have helped though if you had responded a little sooner with those answers.

If sludge had built up in the engine, you can’t just flush it out. It has to be scrapped out mechanically, scrapers and stiff brushes. Some disassembly required.

The dealer didn’t do anything illegal. They could have done better, especially in communication with you. The oil change, while highly recommended, is not a requirement for turbo replacement, but they should have at least informed you that it would be a good idea, but you would have to pay for it.

Most dealers these days do not want to discuss the maintenance requirements of your vehicle with you anymore. They don’t even point out that it is in your owners manual or a supplement of it. They want you to bring it to them for all maintenance on their schedule. It appears that you have done at least the minimum maintenance so I’m guessing that Mazda may have under estimated the maintenance needs of this engine.

I think the bottom line is though, the dealer did nothing illegal. I don’t think they had your best interests in mind, but that is just bad service. I don’t think that you will be able to hold them liable. This sucks, but it is what it is, sorry.

2 Likes
36

…and the vehicle’s warranty would not cover the MAJOR disassembly and scraping-out of the engine that would be required to rid it of that accumulated sludge. If the dealership had presented the OP with a bill for…let’s say…$1,000…for the necessary work to rid his engine of that sludge, my guess is that he would have posted a protest at that point regarding that totally valid charge.

Ergo–he would still have been an unhappy customer in this situation, unless the mfr agreed to cover all of the expenses related to engine sludging, and that is…very unlikely.

37

My mistake. When you first said “defective” (and because of the age of the car) I assumed that the turbo was replaced under warranty. That’s what defective implies. Once a part outlives the warranty period it’s no longer defective if it fails. It’s just a failed part. So to step back a bit, you didn’t have a defective turbo, you had one that failed. Now, as it turns out, it failed because of engine sludge that wasn’t addressed at the first failure. And since the car was no longer under warranty, that changes my answer a bit.

If the first turbo had failed under warranty, the dealer would be completely in the right by not addressing the sludge. When doing work under factory warranty, techs are bound to perform the work with blinders on, so to speak. They must follow the factory manual precisely, no more, no less. And since the published procedure that I see does not mention changing the oil, there was no reason to do so. And even if they had recommended an oil change and air filter, they stand the chance of being dinged for attempting an upsell on a warranty job, which is a no-no.

But as it is, the turbo didn’t fail in the warranty period. In my opinion it would have been wise to do an oil change at that time, but that wouldn’t have addressed the sludge problem. You know what engines are like from your racing experience. Sludge goes everywhere. It’s not just in the oil pan and valve cover. If an engine is sludged up enough to cause mechanical trouble, there’s no cleaning it out. It requires engine removal and complete disassembly–an engine overhaul. So even if the sludge had been discovered at the first turbo replacement, the remedy would have been the same as it is now–engine rebuild or replacement.

It’s highly unlikely that your engine was clean 12K miles ago and is sludged up now, so I agree that the first turbo probably failed from oil starvation. I agree that the first shop probably should have brought up the possibility of a sludged up engine, but without at least pulling a valve cover for a look-see, it’s hard to tell. Were they negligent? No. Sloppy? Maybe. Would you have authorized a couple hundred dollars extra to inspect the inside of your engine when you had the turbo replaced? Probably.

At this point, you paid $3000 for the ability to drive the car for another 12K miles. Now the car needs an engine and another turbo. Aside from the cost of the inconvenience, the only point to argue is what to do about the cost for the second turbo. Replacing the engine would require turbo removal and installation, so there would be no additional labor cost to replace it when doing the engine. That just leaves the cost of the part. And as a goodwill gesture the part could be sold to you at cost or split 50/50, something could be worked out.

I’m not sure if you have the car at the same dealer or another dealer or an indy shop.

I ran my own place for 8 years. If your car were serviced by my shop and this had happened, I would quote you a fair price for a good used engine installed, complete with used turbo, and let you decide what to do.

1 Like
38

I so appreciate everyone who is trying to help me with a very challenging situation. I need assistace here, but if you’re not going to read what I wrote below…don’t bother. Skimming the below info and thinking you know what I’m going to say, isn’t going to work.

It’s clear from some of the responses, my info isn’t being read. Some people are so ready to read me the riot act, they don’t take the time to read and understand the situation I find myself in.

I understand what you are saying, but pease stop telling me what I should have done and didn’t do and enlighten me regarding what Mazda Service DIDN’T do and what they SHOULD have done.

He we go…again!

Once I received my car back from Bob Moore Mazda, what I did in the past is over and done. I now need to know what shape my vehicle is in after service and what needs to be done, if anything, from preventing this from happening again.

FYI…Regarding what “I” should have known and what “I” should have done…

I’m not a motor guy, but I wish I was. You guys are so much smarter than us drivers.

I was very young when my family raced competitively. I’ve been testing with NASCAR teams for many years. Not because I’m such a great driver, but my family’s ties to racing. Buck Baker and Marvin Panch were close family friends and my Mother’s driving coaches. My Father was business partners with Tiny Lund. All three men are in the NASCAR Hall of Fame and won the Daytona 500. It doesn’t hurt that my brother in law is a famous country music personality. It’s not what you know…right? :slight_smile:

When I get to the track, my seat and setup are ready to go. All I do is shake the car down, in an effort to get the primary dialed in and occasionally, tire testing .

This is where the rubber meets the road and I need your help. Please understand what I’m about to ask and give me an honest, but reasonable answer.

  1. Yes, I was partialy responsible for sludge buildup in the engine. I got that! Hence the $3k it cost me to have fixed. The turbocharger was not under warranty.

  2. The 4 cyl. Mazda CX-7 has a design flaw in the PCV valve that causes terrible engine sludge buildup. I only found this out when my car died and I googled the problem. That’s why Mazda doesn’t make the CX-7 any longer. (CX-3, CX-5 and CX-9) Like clockwork, most CX-7 4 cyl. turbo owners lost a turbo at 75k miles, primarily due to premature sludge buildup in the engine.

…so everyone please stop crusifying me for this disaster for one minute and assume what I’m telling you is correct, so I can begin to better understand who should have done what.

  1. Now…Bob Moore Mazda has my wife’s CX-7 in Oklahoma City and she returns to Arkansas (6 hours away). The car died while she was spending the weekend with family in Oklahoma. The turbo had a high pitch noise and the CX-7 lost significant power. She had it towed to the local Mazda dealer. Bob Moore Mazda kept our car for an entire week.

  2. This is what I believe should have happened and hopfully every reasonable, non-mechanic would have as well.

Here we go…In my opinion, Mazda should have…

A. Diagnose the problem. (Damaged turbocharger)

B. Diagnosed the reason the turbocharger failed.
(Oil starvation)

C. Fix the underlying cause of the problem.
- Remove the sludge from the engine.
- Make sure the PCV valve was clean and functioning properly.

D. Repair and replace all of the components that have anything to do with the defective turbo/oil eco system of the vehicle.

“CHANGING A TURBOCHARGER”

Section Two: Oil Pipes and Engine Oil

Before you install the replacement turbocharger, the first job is to change the oil and associated filtration systems. Remove and replace the oil feed pipe from the turbocharger and ensure that the new pipe is free from kinks and blockages. Then replace the oil filter and replace the engine oil. It is important to have new, clean oil as impurities in older oil could play havoc with your new turbocharger’s bearings. Finally remove all the crankcase hoses and filters, and either clean or replace them in line with the recommendations in your owner’s manual._**

IS THE ABOVE SO DAMN HARD TO UNDERSTAND??? OMG!

E. Explain to the car owner why the turbocharger failed, what had to be done to remove the sludge from the engine and tell them exactly how often to change the oil,oil filter,air filter and fuel filter. Specify the type of oil, synthetic is recommended for turbocharged engines.

F. Charge $3,000 for everthing and thank the customer for choosing their shop, because they could have gone anywhere.

THAT IS THE WAY THIS DEBOCLE COULD HAVE BEED AVOIDED AND HOW A PROFESSIONAL AUTO SERVICE REPAIR FACILITY SHOULD BE RUN.

Stop thinking like a mechanic for just a moment and put your customer hat on…a customer that knows nothing about a car, except fill it with gas, change the oil and check the air in the tires. Hypothetically speaking…

Why did I get my car back from the Mazda service shop without my oil, oil filter, air filter and fuel filter being chaged?

Why didn’t the Mazda service shop diagnose why the turbocharger failed?

If the Mazda shop had diagnosed the problem…why didn’t they attempt to remove as much of the engine sludge as much as possible from the engine…if not all of it?

Why didn’t the Mazda service shop tell my wife what they found and how we could possibly prevent it from happening again?

1 Like
39

OK, what you should have done and what they should have done is in the past. Better communication probably would have headed some of this off. If you are going to get this car back with a rebuilt motor and a new turbo, my suggestion is that you use a full synthetic oil in the future. Mobil 1 EP or Penzoil Platinum would be good choices. I would also recommend changing the oil every 5 or 6k miles from now on.

But here is one more thing your wife could do. When she arrives at her destination on each trip, let the motor idle for three minutes before shutting down. This will cool the turbo charger bearing down by quite a bit. Then when the engine is shut down, the little remaining oil trapped in the bearing won’t have to absorb as much heat.

A hot shutdown is when most of the oil damage is occurring. A teaspoon or so of oil is now absorbing all the heat from a red hot turbocharger. That breaks down the oil very quickly. This is where and when the sludge that damaged your engine is forming. So a cool down period and using an oil with the highest thermal breakdown will go a long way to preventing sludge from forming in the future.

I’m not big on a long warm up, but for turbo engines, or any engine that I am running hard and hot, I do go for a cool down period before shutdown.

1 Like
40

Unfortunately, I think you’re right. It shocks me that everyone knows to change the oil, but very few procedure manuals instruct mechanics to do so. That blows my mind.
I believe the dealer felt he needed to keep the cost down, just because I was negitiating with them in an effort not to pay too much for the service. He was afraid to recommend adding services that I would have to pay for.
I would have gladly agreed to do everything, because when would my car be in the shop for 7 days again? Sooner than I thought. :frowning:
Good input!
Thanks!

          keith
          

          December 25

Couple of things I noted here. I do feel for you on this and it wasn’t fair to criticize you until you answered the questions that @VCDdriver first asked. It might have helped though if you had responded a little sooner with those answers.

If sludge had built up in the engine, you can’t just flush it out. It has to be scrapped out mechanically, scrapers and stiff brushes. Some disassembly required.

The dealer didn’t do anything illegal. They could have done better, especially in communication with you. The oil change, while highly recommended, is not a requirement for turbo replacement, but they should have at least informed you that it would be a good idea, but you would have to pay for it.

Most dealers these days do not want to discuss the maintenance requirements of your vehicle with you anymore. They don’t even point out that it is in your owners manual or a supplement of it. They want you to bring it to them for all maintenance on their schedule. It appears that you have done at least the minimum maintenance so I’m guessing that Mazda may have under estimated the maintenance needs of this engine.

I think the bottom line is though, the dealer did nothing illegal. I don’t think they had your best interests in mind, but that is just bad service. I don’t think that you will be able to hold them liable. This sucks, but it is what it is, sorry.

Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.