@rod
You make some good suggestions, but the handgun restrictions would be a tough sell. Though I agree that any gun that can be on concealed should be accompanied with a CCP, there are still legit arguments for hanguns for home defense. I cannot speak for other states, but getting a CCP just isn’t that hard. As was explained to me by the state police who issue them, if you supply the necessary conditions, training and background check, the police are liable if they fail to show just cause for not giving you one. I don’t think many realize how reasonably easy it is to get one. What most peole fear is, IF they have a need, they want the ability to get a gun quickly and easily…without preparation. In this immediate gratification society, that’s neither well thought out or safe when it comes to handguns.
I seldom agree with the rhetoric of the NRA, but there over all position on the ownership of handguns (and other) is that you get plenty of training and get a CCP. How can you argue with that ?
Possibly the CCP permits should be more difficult to obtain, @dagosa. The devil, as always, is in the details but we must get started on a course that will reduce the number of murder weapons on the street and large bore pistols and ASSAULT RIFLES are murder weapons. Even the insane murderers won’t be caught with a .303 Enfield or a Mauser 94. In their sick minds they want the “blaze of glory.” I saw a man go nuts and unload 150 rounds in an M-60 in the middle of the staff nco shacks in I Corps. He wanted to die. If he wanted to murder someone or even several people he had access to .45s, M-16s and every other weapon in use at the time.
I think @rod you hit the nail on the head. Would we give unlimited rights NOW, for anyone 200 from now to own a gun with the technology available in 200 years ? No one in their right mind would say yes to that…So what makes us think the writers of our constitution intended that. I get conservatism…but I don’t know that true conservatives feel decisions made should hold true to perpetuity, which from our perspective, two hundred years is. As a liberal weenie, you guys will have to enlighten me on that one.
How does one scramble for cover with an M-60 blazing away…is there such a thing as cover ?
And to say the impact of the massacre should be forgotten or liken to a line from Charlton Heston because it makes people feel uncomfortable is beyond comparison
No, more like people get tired of hearing about it.
And still, no comment on the success of registering machine guns...for over 90 years !
Go back to page 9, you’ll see my comment on that
AK-47 and M-16 look alikes are over priced and over rated and are much less utilitarian than weapons costing significantly less.
If that were true, why is the government going after them? Hell, why does the military use them if they are so unwieldy?
The only way to do that is to distinquish that difference at the time one takes possession of a gun
Which is all fine and good, but how do you expect a felon buying a stolen firearm from another felon to run a background check on each other?
Military weapons are for the military and the militia, which is the National Guard.
A militia (pron.: /mɨˈlɪʃə/),[1] generally refers to an army or other fighting force that is composed of non-professional fighters; citizens of a nation or subjects of a state or government that can be called upon to enter a combat situation, as opposed to a professional force of regular soldiers or, historically, members of the fighting nobility.
You made the argument for me. The militia IS the citizenry, not JUST the National Guard. So by your statement, I can own military weapons.
"How do you expect a felon buying a firearm from another felon to run a background check"
All guns are registered on first sale from the manufacturer to the dealer to the first time buyer. With out that first time registration, manufactures would have liability. It is the first sale from a legalized registered owner to another unregistered owner and eventually to a criminal that does not get checked…hope I am making sense. Like the machine gun, that first time registered owner is responsible for the next sale ’ s background check. If he does not transfer the weapon legally, it is still in his name, and like a machine gun, he would be committing a crime after the fact if the gun were found in use by a felon.
It works, because there are thousands of machine guns out there being used all the time by law biding citizens and few are used in crimes. Initially, having an unregistered asault weapon or what ever gun type you choose, in possession for a felon would result in a huge fine and or jail time at the federal level along with volunteer gun registration by legal owners. This volunteer registration and background check gives them a certificate of ownership that reinforces and supports their right to own a gun…granted, there are many unregistered guns out there, but it worked with machine guns with the huge fines…at the federal level.
I don’t think people realize how many actual machine guns are out there legally used and owned!!!
And they are used for too few crimes to even find on record…IT WORKS so well, that when one is used…often, they make a movie of it, over hype it and run it for the next ten years ASK LEGAL MACHINE GUN OWNERS
They are extremely careful. All criminals know in general, You avoid local ordinance procecution by avoiding that local, you avoid state procecution by avoiding state authorities and you avoid procecution for federal offenses only by the most extreme measure. Criminals know this stuff !
@bscar2
You can’t use an argument for the legality of use of firearms by the historical use of firearms by the members of a militia of the Fighting nobility and omit the most important phrase of all…in this constitution you need to keep quoting. You guys keep omitting in the second amendment when ever to refer to the militia, that it isWELL REGULATED and it was at a time when we did not have a standing army. You guys sound like you want the same gun laws to apply 200 years from now when technology will be so advanced for killing, anyone left around then would think we were crazy…our militia ( today) guard units, have jet planes and tanks…when a guards man goes home at night, he does, and can’t park either in his drive to defend himself from maurading armed minorities.
The difference between “people’s rights” and a “person’s individual right’s " is carefully used throughout by the writers of the constitution… They never said that person’s have individual rights to own a gun…,NEVER, only that people in general do, as part of a well regulated militia…”.the people’s right right to bear arms shall not be infrindged"…Not a person’s right. and we are talking about regulations…
The utility of assault rifles is SPRAY AND PRAY, @bscar. That can be useful for a military assault but for a civilian such weapons are just pyrotechnics and weapons of mass murder in confined spaces.
There’s plenty to hide behind at a combat base, @dagosa. We lived in 20’ x 40’ chicken coops that were sand bagged up to waste high.
Assault weapon is basically a meaningless term; it has more to do with cosmetics than anything else. Removal or the change of ONE part can change an “assault weapon” to just a gun.
Can you tell me how any of the proposed restriction will reduce gun violence? Criminals already don’t follow the law, what make anyone think banning one type of gun will reduce gun violence? Most gun violence isn’t done with an “assault” weapon but with a hand guns, look up the stats don’t take my word for it, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8. The estimates we have say there are between 240,000,000 and 270,000,000 firearms in the US, in 2007 (see link above) 10,129 murders were committed with a firearm, so between .0038%. to .0042% of all guns are used commit murder, plus every year after that fewer murder were committed with firearms. Cars kill over 30,000 by accident with about the same number of cars as there are guns, should we also be looking at banning high horsepower cars then too?
We are almost to the point where any gun law will be useless. You can build a magazine of almost any size with a 3D printer (done and works), and they already have printed out a gun with a 3D printer, true it failed after 6 rounds, but the fact they made it should give you pause. The price of a 3D printer go dropping fast, $20,000 and falling. How soon before we see 3D printer for under $5,000 and smaller models for even less. What that means is truly untraceable gun parts, I can stop reseller from selling 11+ round magazines, but can you stop 10,000 or a 100,000, people from just printing one?
I also hate to point out the many if not most of the people who post here already have all the equipment they need to manufacture a fully automatic gun in their shop.
dagosa does the Hollywood bank robbers mean anything, they used fully automatic guns.
I wonder how people pushing for gun control would feel if we put the same restriction on our other rights? Take the 1st, first you’d have to show that you have a need to speak, then go through speech training, then go the police and ask if you can speak, then wait for a background check, then the police could for any or no reason refuse to give you a license to speak. Then limit how long your speech can be. And if you do speak without a license, even to ask for help if your life is in danger, you could go to jail. In many places right now that’s what you have to go through to own or carry a firearm. Tell me how long would you put up with that? We have rights for a reason and we shouldn’t just discard them for the illusion of safety. Or maybe the 14th amendment and the Privileges and Immunities Clause, basically the freedom of movement, you’d have to show you have a need to move, then go through training to show you know how to use whatever device you plan on using to move, then ask the police if you can move, then wait for a background check, and then the police may or may not give you a license to move.
Of course people didn’t put up too much of a fuss over the fourth amendment, which in all but dead already, you are searched without cause when you fly, in New York, you can be search when getting on a subway, or, again in New York, if an officer “reasonably suspects” a person is about to commit a felony a penal law misdemeanor, you can be stopped and searched. So before you do anything if an officer thinks you’re about to commit a crime you can be stopped and searched. Some people going to visit friends and relatives have been stopped and frisked because the building they were entering had drug dealers living in them. TSA has search people getting OFF trains; people were searched and not given any reason as to why.
So slowly are rights are being taken away, and sooner or later the rights you want will be under attack, we must fight, and fight hard to keep all our rights.
As soon as you get that 3-D printer you’ll be in business, @rwee. I’ll fax you a $20 gold piece and VIOLA(sic)!!! We can split the proceeds and live the life of Wry Leigh.
@Rod Knox right now it just a price thing, they’ve already done it, and the plans can be download. They tested the magazine and the gun. And in the auto front they are using them to build parts you can’t get anymore. So it really won’t be that long before any well equipped shop will have one.
Joseph Wesley Newman and his Energy Machine doesn’t have anything to do with this… Sorry but CAD files are out there already. There are several companies building 3D printers, the genie is out of the bottle and it’s hard to put him back in. Kind of like the Anarchist Cookbook it’s too late to unprint it.
And, just like the Anarchist Cookbook, with the resources of the internet, you can find anything you want. Just wait for them to try and restrict the internet. THAT will be a major problem for everyone, not just the average user.
So those 3d printer models for gun parts, or anything else for that matter, will be out there waiting for someone to download them. Are we going to come under government suspicion and have to go through background checks and fill out forms stating we won’t use a 3D printer for illegal activities before we buy one? We have to do that when we buy a gun from any dealer or vender at a gun show. Will the printers be cataloged and anytime we go to buy a new one or even recycle the old, broken one, we have to fill out transfer papers while they pour through the device to make sure we didn’t print any illegal items?
That can be useful for a military assault but for a civilian such weapons are just pyrotechnics and weapons of mass murder in confined spaces.
I won’t deny that they are mostly play toys for most civilians, but I’m not so sure about mass murder in confined spaces. As you said, it’s spray’n’pray, but even in a confined room you’d be lucky to manage many critical hits. At 1000+ rounds a minute some are capable of, it’ll drain that 30~50 round magazine in a second or two. Couple that with recoil, and you’re all over the place. I’ve fired an M1 Thompson SMG and an FNH P90 and both were difficult to keep on target in full auto mode.
Just to get off track a little. Let’s not get too involved with the hype of 3D printing solving all the problems associated with procuring anything you want, any where you want. The process on the receiving end is reasonably sophisticated and totally dependent on the parts being fabricated. To think any one who want’s to fabricate gun parts except a competent, licensed and bonded gunsmith out to realize a healthy and legitimate profit is going to invest in any operation of this type is a stretch.
Until Capt Kirk can be beamed up there is no reason to be concerned about 3-D imaging duplicating anything more dangerous than a club. If a $billion were spent on the effort even a simple flintlock dueling pistol could not be duplicated.
Seriously, does anyone really think such technology can exist?
April Fool’s day is tomorrow. That’s where this was heading and I’m just now catching on.
This technology is NOT about transporting…it’s about constructing using the same material (in this case aluminum) a 3-D image. The 3-D printing isn’t something new. It’s been done with plastic by the auto industry for over 20 years. Now they figured out a process to use Aluminum. Who knows where the technology will lead.
I can’t find it right now, but I read a few days ago about some group trying to organize a gun rights march in DC on the 4th of July this year. An ARMED march.
As looney as I may sound, even I think that’s a crazy idea. Just asking for trouble