Toyota will move Corolla production

General Discussion
41

@irlandes Having worked in Mexico I’ve seen a very substantial Middle Class, for lack of a better term, developing. Auto jobs are sought after, and the workers are well looked after.

Before the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was put in place, the unions took a busload of people to Mexico and visited the most poorly run maquiladores on the border. They said that US auto plants locating in Mexico would expose their workers to these conditions. The agreement went ahead as planned, and now Mexico is well on the industrial development curve and produces high quality products. Nissan has a very large and well run plant North of Mexico City. My wide screen Panasonic TV says “Hecho en Mexico” on the back. It has given 8 years of faithful service.

Mexico now produces more cars than Canada.

42

“Don’t worry about Canada, they will still make lots of snow blowers.”

My Toro snow blower was made in Mexico. Well designed in Minnesota anyway. What do Mexicans know about snow?

43

http://www.autonews.com/article/20120201/BLOG06/120209989/mexico’s-auto-boom-is-about-wages

It’s still about wages and parts manufacturers get paid significantly lower then those working in auto assembly plants. That’s what the first article was about and not auto plants.

It’s $28 per hour vs $5 and much higher when you include benefits practices as of 2012 for the auto worker and lower then $5 for the parts makers. How are you going to compete with wages one fifth what they are in the US.

Now, if one believes that it’s the American worker who is responsible for increasing the standard of living in Mexico, that’s fine. Just remember that corporate income has been at an all time high since protections were lowered by NAFTA and other trade agreements.

44

“The car business has truly globalized and China will be the next major player.”

Not necessarily.
A recent issue of Business Week reported that the cost advantage of manufacturing in China has essentially disappeared. Simultaneously, the government of Indonesia is building their version of China’s Shenzen, and in light of the reality that wages in Indonesia are far lower than in China, manufacturing is already starting to shift from China to Indonesia.

In addition to Indonesia, both Vietnam and The Philippines are countries where it is now cheaper to manufacture, as compared to China.

45

I agree @VDCdriver Until they build cars that conform to other country standards for as little as the rest of the world, they can’t sell. They will be a big player in their own country, but not here. Assembly line Technology goes a long ways in making cars cheaper, even with the low cost of labor, it will take a bigger American investment IMho, to help make them more competitive. I don’t feel they can do it on their own.

46

Thanks, Docnick. My views are much like yours. Amazing things are happening in Mexico, not only over the 32 years since my first visit, but in the 10 or 12 years I have lived here.

They happen more slowly because Mexico simply does not have access to large quantities of investment money.

For a few years, international economists have been predicting that in the not distant future Mexico is predicted to be the economic power house of the Western Hemisphere. And, they do NOT mean after the USA.

47

A good friend of mine, now a college English instructor, spent several years in Aguascalientes where Pepsi, Xerox, and Nissan had large facilities. He made a handsome living there teaching “business conversational English” to the locals who aspired to jobs at these factories. Once they were proficient enough in English to rise in the ranks at the factories they were doing very well by local standards. They drove newer cars, had nice clothes and appliances and shopped at the better stores in town.

I think the auto manufacturing jobs in Mexico are doing for the middle class there what those same jobs did here in the US during the 50’s and 60’s.

48
What do Mexicans know about snow?

Just take a drive to the top of Popo:

49

"What do Mexicans know about snow ? "
It seems the real question should be, " what do some really know about citizens of Mexico ? "

Mexico competed in the 2014 Winter Olympics.

50

There’s a lot of people in FL who’ve never seen snow. I suspect there are an even greater in Mexico who’ve never seen snow…but I’m sure they know what it is.

51

It’s just the generalization of a set of people’s who are now a major play in auto manufacturing. They can easily assume the responsibility of that car’s performance in areas other then their own. Heck, there are manufacturers everywhere who make parts and products they will never own or see again.

The same could be said of citizens of any southern state who makes AWD and four wheel drive cars, manufactures snow tires or snow blowers.

Btwhttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_national_ice_hockey_team

Am sure they make ice skates too.

52

Just take a drive to the top of Popo:

Not only can’t you drive there. They don’t even let people walk there during the eruptions. You can walk to the top of the Pico of Orizaba and the Sleeping Woman not far from Popo.

A few weeks ago they discovered bodies on the Pico, believed to be climbers who disappeared around some 60 or so years ago. Last time I read they decided not to recover those bodies because of the danger of an avalanche which could add to the number of missing bodies.

53

The Zocalo, a technical term in Mexico which means there are government offices, a park, and a cathedral, in Mexico City, in some years the city government installs ice making equipment and zillions of people go ice skating there even though the air temperature may be in the 50’s or higher.

As far as down hill Olympics, my guess is we are talking about affluent people who spend time in the USA on the top skiing resorts. That is just a guess, and there may be a place for skiing that I don’t know about. I asked my wife and she had no idea, except places like Toluca where there might be a few hours of what we used to call ‘sliding’ before the snow is melted off.

However, there are places in Northern Mexico where cold weather does indeed at times include snow accumulation. We see it on the news, along with the death count for people who froze to death, but not sufficient snow for downhill training.

54

@irlandes The question is not whether there are actually ski resorts in Mexico or lots of ice skating rinks etc. The references the Olympics is to answer the statement " Wjhat do Mexicans know about snow" in response to their ability to build snow blowers, or for that matter, automobiles and trucks to be drive in climates with snow and ice. It is an irrelavant statement because any nationality can be taught, educated and experience what they have to understand snow. That Mexico has a ski team or competes in the Olympics implies the same thing. Why must we assume any nationality is restricted to knowledge that exists only in their natural habitat. That I refuse to accept and being that you live there, I think you would agree. Any nationality in general, is qualified to build the best of cars or products of any kind given the right experience and educational opportunities.

55

Wow so much for humor. Like I said my Toro snow blower was of course designed and speced in Minnesota but built somewhere in Mexico. I have no idea if the welders or sheet metal workers had ever seen snow or not or ever used the machine they were building. Gotta assume that Toro at least provided an orientation video of a snow blower in action for the production team or at least the foreman.

56

Dagosa, the problem is to be competitive at the Olympics level it is known to take as much as 10,000 hours of practice. It is not a case of ‘knowledge’. It is a case of start young with the requisite native talent, and practice, practice, practice, with competitive coaches.

I assume Mexico didn’t win much in the Winter Olympics but that is only a guess. So, let us assume a much lower level, oh, say, 3,000 hours of practice. Where are they going to get 3,000 hours of practice???

If they only had rink competitors at the 2014 Winter Olympics, that I can very easily accept. All it takes is a large building with a concrete floor and the ice equipment in the floor. There are plenty of families with money to build such a rink all by themselves. And, when you add the concept of a coop of higher middle class families, it’s a slam dunk.

Downhill is a different matter. That was my point. I know of no place in Mexico where there is any significant opportunity to practice anything involving downhill in the snow.

That leaves only a couple options. Rich folk who can have a place where there is a lot of snow, such as Aspen or Switzerland or ?.

Or, maybe take top athletes and send them to the location of the Winter Olympics a few weeks ahead with experienced coaches on tap, and assume it’s not a serious threat to a medal, but a case of national pride to have a team.

As far as assembling cars, it has been known for a long time that people of any nation can be trained to work on an assembly line and produce Toyota quality cars. It is a management issue. As GM was complaining US workers weren’t any good, Japanese cars assembled in the US by US workers under supervision of Toyota management were putting out great cars.

It doesn’t take 3,000 hours of training to be a good assembly operators. It takes training to know the job, and training to understand quality standards. And, the hardest thing for GM was, every worker needs a big STOP button if he or she sees something wrong. Management has to trust the workers with the STOP button.

Some years ago, I think Ford was the first US company to give its employees that button at each station. They had predicted those 'low lifes" (Yes, Virginia, US companies do often refer to their line workers as low-lifes, then wonder why there are unions) would have the line stopped all day.

Instead the number of bad assembled cars dropped dramatically, and very few stoppages during a shift. When they investigated they learned that each operation had only so much time. Up and down the line various assemblers would start falling behind. The first one who couldn’t complete his task hit the switch and in the few seconds before he hit the start button EVERYONE caught up again.

Before that, the same thing happened. But with no stop switch, that means all day long there were people who fell behind, and with no catch-up time, they just had to throw up their hands and let the operation go totally undone! Pretty much everyone had to from time to time let an entire operation go undone. All you older Big Three customers know of cars that were sold that way, even if you didn’t understand what made it happen.

57

Ah, raise your hand if you’ve ever been the victim of a time/motion study engineer developing time studies and work standards that no one can attain. Robots took care of some of that problem and unions had some role in re-educating the engineers also.

One place I worked as a student would get mad if nuts and bolts were dropped on the floor and not picked up. It was seen as wasteful. Another place I worked, they would get made if you took the time to pick up dropped fasteners instead of continuing to work. Time was seen as more costly than screws. I wouldn’t have called my co-workers low lifes but certainly some were plenty goofy.

58

I found the news stand open and bought another newspaper. Today, it was announced that Audi is hiring workers for a plant to produce the Q5. First one to be assembled May 2016.

They have hired 1400 and are attempting to recruit another 700 ASAP. By the end of 2016 they expect total employment to be around 3,800. Only people living in the vicinity will be considered for employment, whatever that means.

It will be located in Municipio (more or less county) San Jose Chiapa, a small rural town NE of Puebla about 50 or more miles. A small town of 10,000 population. Those pop. numbers will be scrolling up very fast! When I Googled that municipio to see where it was, the same page had an article announcing that was the location of the future Audi factory.

The article stated that applicants must apply on-line. That means only computer oriented people will be working there, doesn’t it?

Even here in my small village, kids are using computers at school. I am teaching English classes free, and one class requested materials to do with computers.

I have wireless in my house. We built a retaining wall in front of the house, about 65 meters long. There i signal there. Young people somehow scrounge money for a telephone and sit out there using my wireless.

I had to toss one group of rowdies. When I see someone new, I go out and talk to them. I warn them any problems for the women passing (and they happen to include the most incredibly gorgeous young women in town) and it will be turned off.

Last week I heard men talking out there after dark, and turned it off. No more problems.

The point is even in this small village a new generation of computer users is growing fast.

One of my English students, an 11 year old genius, told me she uses computers at school and knew the things I was teaching them in English. They will get training in Linux, from me, in English. There is one family, three kids, who use my Linux computers, in English, already.

So, anyone who thinks cars are being built in Mexico only because of lower wages does not fully understand what is happening here. They have or will have, competent people. And, I am confident the Audi factory will be computerized, not just the machines, but also the personnel stuff.

As you can see, I can write a book on this. Sorry.

59

I keep forgetting that Puebla has a university, Universidad de las Americas. UDLA, that is considered the equivalent of MIT in the US. It can be horribly expensive. Those with money are expected to pay big money so poor students can get in free. But I know at least one graduate and he does not have to back water for the USA finest tech university graduates.