NOTHING, absolutely bloody nothing, has been done about the torque converter / transmission.
Yes, the tranny whines and has gone from a slight whine at lower speeds to a loud whine all the time. That, also, has been met with the fairy tail that all is normal.
Thank you for the links. I have previously referenced all of those bulletins while dealing with the service department including taking along and showing my letter from Toyota officially notifying me of the extension of warranty on the torque converter of my car by VIN.
@SteveC76 There are several other Toyota dealers in the area, just at considerably farther distance.
Part of tomorrow’s discussion with corporate cust svc will be obtaining info on which of them offer loaner cars if/when a customer’s car needs several days in the shop for warranty work.
Before I bought the car I was assured by this dealer that loaner cars are supplied in the “almost never” need for warranty repairs needing more than a few hours. I specifically spoke with the service manager about the service department protocols before buying and did not rely on the salesman’s spiel regarding the service department. Turns out they don’t. They just provide the telephone number to call the nearest rental car agency at my exspense.
Last attempt getting the torque converter / trans issues resolved corporate did state I can go for warranty work to a dealer other than where I bought the car.
I am not sure how best to go about trying a different dealer. A quick check of my VIN will show where and when I bought the car new at a dealer across town and that I have had two oil changes / tire rotations done along with multiple visits regarding the trans problems with the dealer always claiming the problem cannot be duplicated.
Obviously, if am treated with respect and the problem gets properly fixed, I would give my future paying business to the second dealer who treats me right. What I am not sure of is how to present myself in a manner that doesn’t automatically get me tagged as a customer assumed to be a chronic complainer because I switched from the dealer where I bought the car only a year ago. Why would they want to tackle warranty work for me, my being a new customer, other than putting my car waiting days or weeks to be looked at only after all paying repeat customers have been taken care of? I know enough not to bad mouth the current dealer and simply present myself as a new customer. But since any other dealers can see my track record with the warranty hassle in Toyota records, I feel like I am a “marked woman” which won’t have me viewed favorably.
I feel you are overthinking the second opinion thing. Just go to the other dealer, explain the situation and see if they are willing to try and earn your business. I do consulting work and provide a lot of 2nd op’s. By now I can tell the crazies from the ones who were just not treated right.
@galant. Oh my gosh, I have such tunnel vision about this ongoing hassle I lost sight of that good, basic idea of simply saying I want a second opinion. Now I feel like an utter twit. At least I can laugh at myself.
Sincere thanks, sir, for steering my thinking back on track. You are right, I am over thinking this. I quite appreciate your common sense clearing my muddled thinking. Believe it or not, your post was the 2x4 between the eyes I needed to get my attention refocused on the real problem which is the car malfunction and not how I feel or fear I will be perceived. Simply time for a reboot in which direction I seek resolution.
I had been skipping over this topic all these months because I’m rarely working on transmissions.
I would suggest that you check out some of the other dealers in your area. While under warranty you have the right to visit any Toyota Dealer…anywhere.
I would find a better…more courteous and friendly service department…that wants to gain your business. From what you describe, anything would be better.
I would then recommend that you write a letter to the general manager of the dealership where you had been going detailing just how poorly you were treated. I think he/she would be very interested in how the service department is treating those who come in for warranty work.
You have written it well here and I think you easily could get the point across.
I know that if I were the GM of this dealership…there would be a meeting of the minds tonight with the (lugnut) receptionist and all the service writers. There would be a lot of yelling on my part and the junior service writer would be the car wash boy tomorrow.
One more thing. Tomorrow I’d be taking that Journeyman Tech to a nice lunch (Time paid) to thank him for being such a good asset to my dealership.
Granted you told all this to the Toyota Corporate, but did they relate the service departments actions like you stated or did they just relate “customer unhappy with service dept.”.
I’m in agreement with galant. It’s quite common for dealers to see cars that were purchased elsewhere and with problems that were not resolved.
Sometimes complaints to higher ups help and sometimes it doesn’t. It all depends on how cozy the service manager is with the GM and/or dealership owner.
Of the 5 dealers I worked for 2 of them had service managers who were closely related to the owner and 1 had a service manager who might as well have been related.
The latter was in the same clique as the owner and GM at the most moneyed church around. They weren’t in church on Sundays to worship; they were there to drum up business.
The owner and the GM (his son-in-law) were deacons and made sure the reserved parking around the entrance had new cars sitting there; strategically placed so everyone going in and out would see them up close. The service manager was along for a Sunday morning preachin’ to show he was a team player.
Needless to say, those 3 SMs were never going to be canned or even disciplined no matter what they did or for anything that happened on their watch.
Crazy day so did not have time to call corporate. Will try harder to make time tomorrow.
Whereas driving over the weekend was replete with every problem symptom the tranny has exhibited to date with some worse symptoms appearing (prompting my very vexed postings), today it operated smooth and nice with no problems just like when new. Amazing and weird.
I remember that a few years ago one or more of you predicted that the trend toward trannys with more and more gears was going to result in lots of performance, longevity and servicability deficiencies. It will be interesting to see whether such six, eight, nine speed trannys becomes the norm or if cvt ends up dominating trans design over the next few years.
Frankly, I am not inclined to write letters to the upper management of this dealership. I shall simply take my business elsewhere despite the inconvenience. It isn’t the first time I have changed service shops in forty years of driving.
I also have dealt with a tranny warranty problem once before long ago. During the first year I owned the 1987 Olds, it had severe engine oil and transmission fluid leaks the Olds dealer kept not fixing until I escalated the issue to the zone rep. (Although my dad was alive back then and ended up helping me get it all sorted out.) Later, the tranny did need rebuilding and the engine needed a head gasket job somewhere around 80k-100k. So I am now keeping in mind that early problems left unresolved too long can result in shortened life years and miles down the road.
Anyway, persistence on my part will eventually get this sorted one way or another.
Quote; I remember that a few years ago one or more of you predicted that the trend toward trannys with more and more gears was going to result in lots of performance, longevity and servicability deficiencies. It will be interesting to see whether such six, eight, nine speed trannys becomes the norm or if cvt ends up dominating trans design over the next few years.
My feeling on this is simple. If you cram more gears and parts into the same space…they must be less robust than the simple 3-4 speed tranny’s.
As far as not writing a letter pointing out the problems to the owner of the dealership. I agree I’m not a letter writer either, but this problem will persist forever and someone not a savy as you Marnet will get the same poor service or worse.
As to being savvy, I don’t consider myself to be so. I am not particularly effective in face to face confrontations much of the time because I tend to be scared of confrontation. Perhaps, crafting an appropriate letter would be the best choice.
Well, you explained it all so well here, and kept it civil. I think you’d do a great job getting your point across in a letter.
I’m always best at a letter, than face to face…then I can choose my words more carefully.
I would go to another dealer but before you do call and explain what has happened and what you are experiencing. Have your VIN number when you call so the shop can look at your national history. Rental cars are covered based on the expected repair time and if parts are available. The replacement of the converter will require several hours of tech time to complete and based on the dealers work load the car may need to be at the shop for a day or two. Dealers are franchises and service will vary from store to store. I think if you call around you will be able to locate a store who is much more willing to help you with your current situation.
@Marnet; You are welcome. As usual is user beware. I have gotten a lot of good info from the TN forum, but you also get some not so great comments there. In my case, I am a bit more car savvy and weed things out, not to mention using the forum too.
I have looked at a few of the postings for the torque converter mostly because was thinking about buying a used 2012 Camry. I felt that some owners got the converter replaced with relatively minor complaints and some had to go through hell. In my case I ended up buying a used Hyundai.
I am being cautious. I am reading looking for consistently reported patterns of symptoms and for patterns of how other people successfully got the torque converter fixed and patterns of what has prevented others from obtaining good outcomes.
On more rational, less emotional reflection I realize I need keep in mind there are two separate problems – one is the defective performance of the machine, the other is a human customer service problem. So maintaining personal discipline of my emotions and approaching resolution of the human interactions in a business like manner is apt to gain successful resolution to the mechanical problem. To mix metaphors, time to sail on a new tack and jump my fences one at a time. :-))
I realize that no service department is likely to authorize doing warranty repair unless and until they can duplicate the problem. And since the malfunction Is so darned fickle that may end up taking a long time and sorely tried patience on my part.
I can live with having to return repeatedly if need be, albeit with considerable frustration and inconvenience, so long as I am treated with courtesy and professionalism. But it particularly galled when the mechanic stated he experienced malfunction of proper shifting, even though not explicitly duplicative of the most common torque converter malfunction symptoms, only to have me shooed away by the manager without repairs made.
Anyway, this will gradually get sorted out. I just need to be certain I treat everyone else with the same courtesy and reasonable consideration with which I wish to be treated.
QUESTION: On a strictly practical note, whether the problem is a software and/or physical mechanical malfunction why would it be so random, sometimes behaving, most times with minor to moderate symptoms, and occasionally with major symptoms, all with no pattern to when this all comes and goes???
Oh drat. Formatting ran multiple paragraphs together in a run on mega paragraph dense mess again. My apologies. My fault. I composed on the mobile rather than full site.
@Marnet I am glad to help. On why the problem is intermittent and keeping it to a short and simple answer. The ecu looks at several inputs and determines when and with how much pressure to apply the torque converter clutch. Under certain conditions the clutch can chatter. The best way to make it happen is drive with very light throttle and it will chatter around the shifts at 25 and 45mph.
Long overdue update. After a letter and pointed but civil conversation with the service manager, I gave the original dealership one more try. Car got the torque converter software update and is behaving much better. And if there are any continued or new problems relating to the torque converter I think they are apt to take my concerns more seriously.
On a related note to my most recent ongoing discussion thread about tires, they didn’t charge me for plugging and patching the tire that picked up a nail several weeks ago. I smiled and sweetly said thank you while admittedly thinking to myself it was the least they could do as a courtesy after months of disrespecting my concerns with the torque converter.
Time and mileage will show whether or not the torque converter stays behaving itself.
So it is back to happy motoring (if I can avoid any further debris and nails in the tires! Sheesh, I punctured three in a couple months after going 40 years with only one before that.)
Marnet
…still reading, still learning…
…always thankful for the great help received from members of this forum…
…God bless and Happy Thanksgiving…
