Tom and Ray on PBS' NOVA

We are converting an MGTD fiberglass replica to be electric drive. As a reference to your closing comment on the Nova program.
www.eyedestu.com
We offer an alternative “Zero Energy Lifestyle” utilizing the unlimited energy of the Sun and the inexhaustible geothermal energy of the Earth to achieve conditioning the interior of your home at a more comfortable level than your present home, also utilizing solar PV for your electric usage and to recharge the advanced battery pack of an all electric plug-in automobile.
Imagine your annual savings with virtually no utility bill and not buying gasoline for 75% to 90% of your family’s driving !!

I want to see the new Honda Hydrogen car set the standard to where we should be headed in the future of driving. GM is finally saying that they are moving ahead on the Hydrogen car. I’m not sure if it is the concept they introduced years ago as a platform you could just update the body on. That seemed to be ahead of its time (and WAS). I think Corn Ethanol was a turn down the wrong path to try to achieve energy independence. It HAS succeeded in increasing the cost of CORN and cattle feed (and ALL corn-based foods south-of-the-border!)

I traded-in my 1999 300M for a new Prius. I commute 90-miles (orund-trip) each day to work. The next model Prius I’ve seen hints of on Toyota’s website seems to be a car I might want when the battery needs to be replaced in the Prius I drive now.

The car of the future should probably be a plug in electric. Back in the eighties I saw a Nova program called “Japan’s American Genius”. It was about a guy that discovered a new class of stuff called amorphous materials. He made a flexible, presumably low cost, solar panel. It was said that covering an area the size of Nevada with the solar panels would meet the energy needs of the United States. I’ve been to Nevada in the summer and a little shade would be a blessing.

In Germany, I’ve heard that the government subsidizes investment in solar installations by private landowners as well as using public lands such as freeway medians for solar infrastructure. Private citizens in America can sell solar power back into the grid but the investment required at this time is arguably too much for normal people to afford. Maybe we could increase input into the grid the way Germany does.

Given the theory that people will choose the technology that has the highest cost benefit ratio for them personally, it seems like solar electric could be the answer if the US government would jump start the financials of the technology. Every American property owner could become a mini-business owner. American dream and all that. And that’s before we explore wind, tide, hydro, geothermal and (bite my tongue) nuclear. Oh silly me. I forgot about the oil companies and the farm lobby. But maybe if “we built it they would come…”

I do need to comment on an earlier thread in this discussion. It started with an assertion that the best solution was no car at all. I live in a place where I am the second to the last of 7 employees on a linear 9 mile commute. We all need to be the same place at the same time every working day. Each of us could pay 7 times less to get to work if we cooperated in a car pool solution. I can’t get my work mates to even listen to the idea. So much for conventional economic theory. People do NOT act in their enlightened self interest on this subject.

Tom and Ray, do you guys have the horsepower to contact Jeremy Clarkson on BBC’s Top Gear to review the Tesla car?

It’s IMPOSSIBLE for me to take any mass transit on a regular basis. Real tough to walk or bike 45 miles to work…ESPECIALLY IN SNOW. Clearly you don’t live where they have decent options. Most major cities, like NY London Dublin… Have such systems.

Don’t worry, in the years to come as fuel becomes more expensive that will change. As people start demanding good transit systems and start working closer to home (or living closer to work) we well stop thinking that every trip is a car trip. Less than 100 years ago the first Model T came off the line. Only a few years prior to that, cars were a novelty. Even during WWII the use of cars was often replace with horse or mass transit. I sure looks that we are headed there again. It really was not all that bad.

I’m wondering you didn’t mention the compressed air car? It seems like a brilliant solution…if it works.

The mechanics of the compressed air car are intriguing. One might surmise that the number of moving parts, the complexity of the mechanisms and the energy overhead for the materials required to build the car would all be less. The catch is that you need to expend energy to squish the air. It’s going to be gas, oil, alcohol or electricity in one delivery mode or another that ultimately makes the car go.

A mixture of EFFICIENT interlinked mass transit, consisting of light rail and buses connecting airports where flying is used only for long distance travel is what is needed to allow us to keep our gas guzzling fun machines for weekends. Those who are unable to access, or need to get to, the mass transit systems will travel in some sort of yet to be popularized personal transportation. It could range from a hybrid/electric pedal powered trike to a fancy totally electric vehicle or even personal aircraft. The battery technology problem will, and is being solved as we discuss this. Solar, wind, nuclear and other renewable resource power generation will make the electric vehicle including electric light rail the transport of choice. LED lighting technology will further reduce the load on the grid allowing unforeseen savings. Then some irrational religious zealot will get their hands on a nuclear device and ruin everything.

will have a flash steam Cyclone En. with closed loop water recovery. http://www.cyclonepower.com/

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Well, somewhat like Charlie Gibson & George Stephanopoulos, it took Tom and Ray over 40 minutes to get to the meat of the whole subject: Electric cars. I attach here a letter I sent Tom and Ray over a year ago on the subject. And it should be said from the onset, even if your electric utility burns soft coal, your electric vehicle will still run cleaner than burning gasoline in an internal combustion engine. And secondly, the series hybrid architecture, like that of Chevy’s proposed Volt, solves the whole problem of limited electric range and the need for recharging on extended trips. Furthermore, 80% of all trips are of less than 60 miles anyway. Even the 1993 Chevy EV-1 went that far! Here’s the letter I sent Tom and Ray 2/11/2007:

Re: ?Energy? is at the root of all our problems!

Dear Tom & Ray,

I thought I?d put these thoughts in the hands of someone with a little influence. I could have chosen my congressman but like I said, I need someone with influence.

This is of course the Reader?s Digest version of the case I?d like to make. I can help fill in the details later with such trivia as facts and figures.

First, the world?s need for energy is growing. Second, the world?s energy supply, other than from renewables, is shrinking. One third of the world?s population (Asia) has gone from bicycles to rickshaws to Lincoln Navigators in less than two decades as Hubert?s Peak (?peak oil?) has come and gone.

The burning of hydrocarbons for energy continues to have a disastrous effect on our environment and climate. The ?Atlantic Conveyor? (ie., ?Gulf stream?) is coming to a screeching halt. The implications of this latter point are very significant.

Increased political, economic and military vulnerability are only a few of the problems issuing from our ever growing appetite for oil and gas.

Here?s the solution? Yup, that easy:

Produce energy from the many forms of ocean derived energy such as wave action, thermal / salinity differential, and tidal (including ?low-head kinetic?). Sea water is 832 times denser than air! See http://www.bluenergy.com/technology.html for an example of but one stranded technology for capturing energy from low head low velocity currents.

That takes care of the electrical grid; now, just convert all land based surface transportation (highways and railways) to electric. Done?

Now was that hard?

Just promote Burt Rutan?s version of a Plug-in Series Hybrid Electric Vehicle (see May 2006 issue of ?Automobile? magazine, “No Flight of Fancy”, page 74), similar to GM?s announced Chevy ?Volt?. I suspect GM never really intends to build it or they would be doing so already; there?s nothing really holding them back, though they claim they’re waiting for just the right battery. Balderdash!

Electric Vehicles won?t be a hard sell after convincing the motoring public that they can drive for 1/4th the fuel cost of gasoline, and that after a while they won?t miss the manly throb of a reciprocating engine (part of what killed the Wankel!). I foresee the day soon when we?ll look back on our burning of stuff in our vehicles to make them go, as ?quaint?; quaint like a Stanley Steamer! And electric vehicles will eventually be cheaper to buy because they are much simpler to build than reciprocating combustion engines and transmissions and cooling systems and clutches, etc. etc.

Help shame our federal government into underwriting a serious R & D tidal initiative. Oregon is funding a significant ?wave action? pilot project through Oregon State University.

Why haven?t these dual transitions of usine tidal energy and driving electric cars already taken place? You tell me?. I?m not a conspiracy theorist, but I do believe it would be hard to underestimate the collective intellect of ?them and they?!

Thank you in advance for lending your credibility and influence to this effort. I for one think you are more than just a pretty face?

Absolutely! I too noted their lack of familiararity with CNG with some dismay. I remember seeing a contraption sold at the state fair in the ?50s to compress natural gas at home to run in your car, truck and tractor. Conversion kits and tanks were quite inexpensive and it was touted as burning so clean one never had to change their oil? How slow we learn! Also, Tacoma, WA busses have run on CNG for around 20 years! I believe The free hybrid busses on 16th St. in Denver run on CNG as well. But watch out! Now the oil & gas concerns want to import LNG (Liquid Natural Gas - an inefficient, expensive and dangerous process) from Russia, among other places, landing it near the mouth of the pristine Columbia River, re-gasifying it there and piping it to California. Oh give me a break!

The missing URL in the previous post for information about tidal energy is:
http://www.bluenergy.com/technology.html

HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS. Get real people. Zero emissions and the equivalent of 95 mpg. Numerous other countries have them already. But here’s the kicker:

THEY USE HYDROGEN ELECTROLYZERS FOR ELECTRICITY TO RUN THE OIL REFINERIES THAT MAKE YOUR GASOLINE!!!

Yes, we have the technology. Yes, we are already using it. But they don’t want you to know that cuz they want your money from the oil. They haven’t bled you dry yet. And yes, we have the infrastructure.

And the cars look really, really cool!!

My colleague and I are members of G.M.'s Project Driveway program, in which members may have the opportunity to test drive the Equinox Fuel Cell vehicle. This car is based on Chevy’s Equinox chassis, but fitted with a hydrogen fuel cell stack. It is a zero-emissions vehicle, with water vapor as its exhaust. My colleague, Maria, was selected as one of the first test drivers, and I’m hoping to be among the next group selected. One of the biggest obstacles, I think, with hydrogen is the infrastructure–we’re simply not ready yet to fuel millions of vehicles. Also–how is the hydrogen being produced? If it incorporates fossil fuels, then what’s the point? But I’m excited about this program, the G.M. people are fantastic, and as environmental science teachers, we’re having a blast teaching others about this program. One thing we’ve both noticed–many more men than women stop us to ask about the car.

This my colleague Maria with a White Plains, NY councilman and the G.M. Equinox Hydrogen Fuel Cell at a recent science expo at Pace University.

I think the car of the future will run on H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide). H2O2 is an extremely high enegy fuel. A Hydrogen Peroxide/Aluminum fuel cell has 20 times the energy potential of a lead acid battery and only produces water. A 50 pound fuel cell would be enough to power a vehicle.

In my opinion the future will be a fuel centered economy. Hydrogen peroxide can be made from sunlight and is also a byproduct of ordinary fuel cells. I can imagine small scale production of H2O2 from co-genarators in homes as well as large scale production in desert areas where sunshine is plentiful but farming is not vialble.

I think today’s HOV lanes will evolve into high speed car-trains. You will drive your can onto a monorail type of apparatus where a computer will combine cars going to the same destination and will join them front to back to travel at very high speeds between cities.

~OK

No they haven’t destroyed them all. They’re being held in a secret warehouse facility in the northern tier of Michigan. Eventually, the cars will be released for sale to GM and media excutives and appear in the back of Hemmings’ Motor News for resale. Of course, you can buy a Solectria (GM Metro/Sprint with Electric Motor) or an electric Chevrolet S-10 or Ford Ranger pick-up on Ebay. It is also possible to get a first generation Toyota Corolla Hybrid and strap the gasoline engine (empty the tank of gasoline), install additional batteries, get the charger wiring from Japan or have it constructed here, and run it on electricity. You can even recharge the batteries using solar energy. Google solarvan to see how its done in the UK. You can also get a magnetic motor from a Dyson vacuum, some camcorded or laptop batteries, wire them up on a bicycle and you’ve got an EV.

In the future (later part of this millenium) there will be no need for automobiles. We will simply go to beaming stations where we will be beamed up just as on Star Trek to a destination. However, this will only occur when the anti-mattered discovered and proven to exist by Dr. Casimir (see Casimir Effect or get two pie plates and try it for yourself)in 1949 the year of my birth is finally harnessed to provide zero point energy. Darn those grays, they just won’t give us those technologies right now!
Until we’re ready to go where no person has ever gone before…there will be things known as automobiles. These vehicles will be driven by magnetic electric motors on each wheel, see the Loerner-Porsche of 1901 (Dr. Porsche knew what he was doing). The motors won’t smell like subway trains do today when their windings get old because they’ll have motors similar to those in your Dyson Vacuum cleaner. So actaully you’ll be driving a vacuum cleaner and not an automobile. They’ll also have to install a speaker to make automobile noises so that people won’t will recognize that a vehicle is approaching and stay out of its way. The vehicles power source will either be a hydrogen power cell with salt water precipitator which will take H20 and create hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen will be stored in tanks so that you can recessitate someone should the occassion occur or if the car is submergeed by having been driven by a Kennedy then everyone in the vehicle will be able to escape or survive until someone comes to rescue you. There will be special batteries constructed to hold the additonal energy captured by the vehicles solar pannel and by the wind generator that will be mounted in the front grill of the car to capture additional electrons. Needless to say the cars will be clean, cheap, have personal entertainment systems, air conditioning, cell phones, and they will completely computer controlled. You won’t be allowed to drive your car. Instead you’ll issue a command as to where you want to go…take me home, etc…and be taken there. So now more DUI. You can be stoned out of your mind…your car will be your designated driver. Finally, most electricity to automobiles as well as all other electronic devices will have electric “broadcasted” to them over the airwaves just like Nikola Tesla, the inventor of Alternating Current (AC) said it could just prior to his strange suicide/death in a gotham flop house room prior to the start of WWII. Some speculate he was being sollicited by der Fuhrer to return to Europa and work on his scheme as well as something else called an Atom Bomb. Strange that the FBI immediately entered the case and seized all of Tesla’s work papers, most of which have never been found. A team of folks form MIT accomplished Tesla’s broadcast scheme last year when the broadcasted electricity to their home entertainment system. Also in about a year gasoline prices will be back down to $.99 a gallon when the elections are over…and the bandits in bed sheets no longer believe they can use petroleum as a weapon (or veapon as they like to say).

For a while I saw that BMW was proposing to generate steam from the exhaust manifold and trun it through a turbine. It seemed like a dead end idea to me but it reminded me of a chemistry demo in high school. If you put steam through a tube filled with steel wool the steam splits into hydrogen and oxygen. The steel wool is the catalyst but there are toher catalysts available too nickel and platinum come to mind. You then cycle the Hydrogen and Oxygen trhough the intake manifold. It could be a otential way to harness wated energy from IC engines.
Are there any physicists of engineers on this forum who can comment on some of these ideas?

~OK

I didn’t take time to scan all the replies, so I don’t know whether anyone has mentioned air cars. These lightweight plastic cars would be perfect for developing countries, since they could be produced very cheaply. Millions of people could afford their first car without adding to the global demand for petroleum. Since the only emission from the high pressure air tanks is cold air, it would be perfect for tropical countries where a heat source is not needed. An onboard compressor would fill the tanks in a few hours, or a filling station with large tanks could fill the car’s air tank in minutes for only a few pennies. It wouldn’t solve every problem, but the air car could be one part of the solution. Tata Motors of India is set to begin production of the air car within a relatively short time. We shall see…