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To the car talk regulars, just for the record

first, I did some googling afterthis afternoons disaster, and I can see why some of you may have been reminded of some past promotors of H2 generators. my queries did, at times, echo the promoters spiel. I might add that some of the arguments you had against their effectiveness, were the same as the sites’ …verbatim at times.
this was only a coincidence. I assure you that I am no shill for anything but jesus. (lol I am hilarious!) I have only discussed these devices a few times, with my son, 5 yrs ago, and this afternoon with you. I also googled them for about 10min. afterwards. all my thoughts were my own, based on your responses and my own accumulated knowledge and curiosity. I was only reminded of the darn thing because of hearing something about a new hydrogen fuel cell car, or law, or something.
next, I repeatedly said I was not saying you all were wrong, I was just not convinced. I said, repeatedly, that there were safety issues. I said, that had my son asked me first I would have objected vehemently to his installation of it. he s my son for god s sake. I don t want him blown up. given that, i don t see how it was spam.
i was not attempting to troll either. i was rude a bit, and, for that, i m sorry. i don t think 1 or 2 people should be able to slam so many flags down for the same conversation , either i m a troll, or not. but that s @cdaquila s problem. heck, all i did was hit the disagree button with shadowfax, when he said that i was a troll, and he troll flagged every comment i had made. hardly fair in my view.
also, whitey left a message on my page. he accused me of being some "guerilla spammer. said that i had established my credibility here for the purpose of pushing these generators. and slammed me with i don t know how many spams. do you really believe i spent the last yr, almost, setting up that thread?
i willask the moderater to restore the entire thread as well. it was not that bad and i would like anyone who cares to, to read it and let me know what they think. if everyone thinks badly of me, then i ll re think things.

Why don’t you just drop it, no one here is going to change their mind on that particular subject.

Let it go, man


oh, I especially want to apologize to the guy I told to shut up, no excuse.


Do you truly want to apologize?

For the record, I have at times acted inappropriately on this website

And I have been rightfully put in my place

I know I deserved it, and moved on

And I’m trying to be less combative

Please try to learn from this experience

…rethink my way of thinking i mean, i really don t care about the device anyway

If rockets use it then it will get down to Earth some day. Wait for the rockets. That’s one way to figure out if something really exists. With fracking we may be able to use water as fuel some day soon.

Geez I went out to clear the snow off a couple driveways this morning and all heck broke loose.

Apology accepted,from Me at anyrate-Kevin

For the record, I didn’t troll-flag every comment you made in that thread. Only the ones that were trolling. Which happened to be most of them, but that’s your fault, not mine. And I flagged you before I knew that you hit the disagree button on my post (which actually I just found out now, since I don’t tend to obsessively pour over what flags I pick up).

Also for the record, I, personally, don’t think you’re a marketing shill. I think you either want to believe in this particular fake product so much that you’re obnoxiously resistant to anyone who says anything against it, or you don’t believe in it at all and were looking to get a rise out of us. Obviously, I’m still leaning toward the latter, since, as I’ve said, your posting record indicates that you’re decidedly not a moron.

It’s possible that I’m wrong, but I’ve been reading (and running) online discussion outlets since before the internet was available to the public, and I’ve seen this pattern many times before. If you weren’t trolling, then you should be aware that your posts in that thread mimicked a troll very precisely, as have your numerous follow up posts which do nothing but create the potential to get people riled up again, and I would suggest that you consider that in future posts when you feel like dismissing every reply in the thread.

… I forgot to mention in my original post, on this thread, that I was intentionally playing the devil s advocate to elicit info to satisfy my curiosity. I thought this was a legitimate debating/conversation technique. in hindsite, I should have made that clear from the start. perhaps that would have lessened the anger that resulted. I actually thought, when I started the Walmart thread, that it would be considered trolling, and that turned out to be popular and interesting. so what do I know?

@wesw, you’ve offered your apologies and expressed that you feel victimized for the troll response. I think people have responded in a civil, honest way. Like @db4690 says, time to learn from the experience instead of rehashing it. If you keep bringing it up, people are going to get irritated all over again and youll be digging yourself a bigger hole. Just consider how people take your comments at face value. It wouldn’t work to keep bringing it up in real life, face to face, either. Think of how this type of communication would work in that realm, and it might guide your choices here. I’m considering closing the discussion, but you’ll open another one. Time to move on!

I’m glad you’re back. It’s important not to take anything any stranger writes on any forum personally. I try to stay focused on the subject at hand, and that usually works. The times that it does not, I simply move forward. It all disappears in a matter of a few days.

@wesw: If you want to prove you’re not just a shill or have a financial interest, how about posting something relevant or participating in other discussions? When someone only seems to discuss something that has been repeatedly debunked, and won’t listen to either others’ opinions or the analyses of trusted authorities, it does make people suspicious.

Re. safety issues, there might be a safety issue if these things actually produced enough hydrogen to even fill a balloon in a reasonable amount of time.

Oblivion, IMHO nobody needs to prove anything to anyone else here. As long as a poster doesn’t get indecent, or engage in personal attacks, all are welcome to express their thoughts, concerns, opinions, and queries.

We can all be “pigheaded” at times. And there are areas where some of us will never agree. Two intelligent, educated individuals with similar backgrounds can look at the exact same data and draw totally different conclusions. And both can believe themselves totally correct. That’s the great thing about living in a free country, but it’s also the thing that makes accepting the perspectives of others such a challenge.

We should be able to disagree with another’s posts and still accept them.

No, no one needs to “prove” anything to anyone. Perhaps I used a poor choice of words. But if you wish to establish credibility and not be seen as something you’re not, or as having an agenda, it would probably be useful to contribute to a wider variety of subjects and not be fixated on just one. And I mean this in general, not targeted at wesw or anyone else.

I work with a guy that’s a big conspiracy theorist. While it’s occasionally fun to debate with him, after a while it gives you a headache as he is never willing to question his own point of view or discuss much else. Some of my coworkers will essentially cross the street if they see him coming because he only knows one tune. And it’s a shame, because he’s a nice guy and if he’d just be willing to branch out a bit from his tirades about government cover ups, he’d be a lot more fun to talk to, which makes it all the more frustrating.

Oblivion, I for one have absolutely no intention of establishing my credibility to you or anybody else, or proving that I’m not something other than what I claim. And nobody else should have to either. This is an open and free forum to ask questions, have debates, and primarily help solve people’s problems. Let’s keep it that way.

If you’re going to openly have a point of view, you have to accept the fact that others may disagree with it. That’s the way the world works.

@the same mountainbike: To put this gently, you seem to be the one getting bent out of shape for me expressing my opinion. If you feel the need to express the “constitution” of this forum as you see it, so be it. I don’t disagree with you on that. As you mentioned, we have freedom of speech here, and all viewpoints should be tolerated as long as they are not offensive or demeaning to anyone, and we all will occasionally get a bit ticked off about things. I think you’ve misunderstood the point I was trying to make though.

I mentioned (to paraphrase) that if wesw (or anyone else for that matter) wants to be seen as not just invading a forum to market something (as we seem to get here from time to time), that a diversity of posts and contributing to other discussions would go a long way towards easing that perception. Whatever he or anyone else chooses to do is beyond my control and I’m not in the habit of forcing my will upon anyone, even if the means existed to do it. I do not feel this was any kind of personal attack on him, merely stating my opinion. I was not the one that flagged any of his posts as troll, spam, or whatever. Peace.

Yes, Oblivion, I AM “bent out of shape”. Your demand to wesw that he “prove [he’s] not just a shill” by doing something that you want to see him do was way out of line. IMHO you owe the man an apology.

I don’t believe anyone on this forum is out to “win the argument”. We have discussions and by the end of the thread we’re all smarter about the topic under discussion.

If someone makes a statement that cannot possibly be true since it flaunts the laws of nature, we all cointribute to pointing out why and where it is untrue.

Every now and then a poster gets upset because we disagree and he/she does not like the answer; that’s lack of maturity.