This is just what we DIDN'T need!

General Discussion
21
If it's connected to the internet, then a hacker anywhere can break in, and also turn off the alert and turn off the cameras.

There is no way I would put an internet connected front door lock on my house, you might as well leave the door open.

I’ve written many extremely difficult-to-hack software over the years that’s on the internet. Some of our telecom systems we design are in countries where it’s constantly under attack. Some have attempted hundreds of thousands of internet attacks a year…NOT 1 has ever broken in. 256bit encryption is next to impossible to break. And as of today there is no known case of anyone ever breaking it.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1279619

22

Mike, I think you should pay a visit to DC and the Office of Personnel Management and Pentagon in particular. They need a little help. I 'spose one thing they’d need to do is replace the 30 year old computers though and that would take some of the money they use for staffing.

23

"There is no way I would put an internet connected front door lock on my house, you might as well leave the door open. " EXACTLY! What’s wrong with a good old fashioned padlock? Shadowfax’s response was interesting to read, but seems like a Rube Goldberg solution to me. Hundreds of dollars in cameras, smartphones, software apps, then you have to sync it all together. . . cameras and door on two different systems. . . personally manage the security. . . wouldn’t it be infinitely simpler just to have a good old fashioned padlock?

I was going to suggest driving an older simple car that, a: cannot be hacked because its not communicating wirelessly, and b: nobody is likely to want to steal. The fatal flaw in this is that eventually you have to replace the car, and I don’t think you can buy a new car anymore that doesn’t communicate wirelessly.

I also wouldn’t put internet connected cameras in my house. “You can watch your kids to see what they’re doing even when you’re not home.” Yeah, you and every child molester in the world with an internet connection and a little bit of tech savvy. “Oh but the feed is encrypted so that cannot happen.” I just don’t believe in putting so much faith in technology, especially when the old technology works just fine. True, I’m not technically inclined, but you cannot turn on a television today without hearing about another data breach, 10 million credit card, social security #'s stolen, etc. Even the Pentagon and CIA cannot keep the Russians and Chinese out of their top secret files.

24

Well, let’s clarify:

I have security cameras because we had a neighborhood problem with teenagers from other neighborhoods running around tagging fake gang signs on private property. I don’t particularly feel like paying a deductible every time some gang-member wannabe spraypaints my house.

I have the garage door opener because it’s very quiet and has a battery backup. The internet stuff was a neat addon that I have come to appreciate, especially as it allows me to command it to open and close via the internet so that when a delivery guy gets there, he can drop stuff in the garage without someone having to be home.

you cannot turn on a television today without hearing about another data breach

Now that’s a very good point, and it illustrates why people should take their security into their own hands. Those data breaches happen because corporations refuse to implement modern security protocols (if they even implement security protocols at all - many customer databases have been shown to store customer information in plaintext which is a cardinal sin of IT security), and crackers exploit their old, out of date, easily penetrable security.

Even the Pentagon and CIA cannot keep the Russians and Chinese out of their top secret files.

This is what happens when you outsource security to the lowest bidder. It is possible to keep the Russians and Chinese out of top secret files, but it requires competence, and it also requires the government to pay the security architect who can design such a system what she’s worth (hint, well into 7 figures, and probably closer to 8 figures if she’s securing national security-related systems), and if the government did that people would be howling over those cushy overpaid government jobs.

At any rate, taking security into your own hands means you are responsible for your security, not a faceless company that doesn’t care about you. It means a number of things that it still astonishes me that most people don’t follow:

Stop downloading random crap from the internet. That’s how you get viruses and malware.

Stop responding to official sounding emails telling you to enter your financial information into a form.

Stop plugging random bits of technology into your car just because your insurance company says you can get a small discount on your premiums - those monitors are not secure and open a vulnerability that does not exist in the car without YOUR help.

As to my security cameras, yes, they are encrypted, you can’t access them without accessing my personal, private webserver that is located in my own house and secured by me, and good luck figuring out my password.

I guarantee my systems are a lot safer than the average Joe who downloads free games from places like Wildtangent and who clicks every link anyone ever emails him, and who has one password used across all devices, and it’s either “1234” or “password.”

BTW the “internet is chock full of child molesters” thing is grossly overblown and indicates a need to stop watching so much sensationalist television news.

25

Excellent points, Shadowfax. That’s why I like this forum, its a good place to read and learn. Other forums seem to be mostly conservatives and liberals hurling insults at each other.

As someone who is not technically knowledgeable, I know people like you and MikeinNH keep posting that things CAN be made secure, for the right amount of money and talent, but the fact seems to be that things are not made secure, for whatever reason, be it funding, incompetence, technological arms race between the authorities and criminals, and so forth.

Call me paranoid, I just don’t believe in putting so much faith in technology. Murphy’s Law is universal, from the Titanic to the Space Shuttle Challenger to the EPA dumping all those millions of gallons of poison in the river in Colorado last week. If anything can go wrong it will, sooner or later.

I don’t download random crap off the internet. I use the internet mainly as an electronic encyclopedia to get information I need, read the CarTalk forums, etc. Example, I don’t do online / mobile banking, why? I don’t see the need. They say things like, “Download our app and manage your account online.” Manage what? The bill comes, I mail in a check, and the bill comes again next month. What is there to “manage”?

I rarely even check my e-mail unless I am expecting a specific email from somebody. It feels like wading through junk mail. A few years back I got locked out of my email account because of out of date software issues and when I got back in I had over 900 emails waiting for me and realized that I really didn’t need to pay attention to my email.

Regarding those insurance company tracking devices, those kind of things anger me to no end as a privacy advocate and I could probably start a separate thread about that. Its the same kind of thing as all the store “loyalty” cards that have proliferated like a cancer in the past decade. The data is being collected to benefit (the corporation) that is collecting the data, its NOT to the benefit of those who are submitting the data. They are going to mine that data in an effort to get deeper into your pockets. My position is that if the data is never collected in the first place, then you never have to worry about it being breached.

As far as your problem with the teenage vandals, that sucks, and could happen most anywhere. If I were in that situation I’d probably want cameras and digital storage not linked into the internet, and, aaah, I’m painting myself into the corner again. Technology is a double edged sword. With the live feed, makes it easier to catch them in the act, but you give up some of your privacy to do so and become more dependent on technology. I just think people should carefully consider these trade-offs and not just blindly go along with what the system says is best for us.

Apologies to all for wandering off topic.

26

My solution for this problem is to not own any fob-equipped cars, and open the garage door by pulling on its handle … lol

27

I have a “smart” TV equipped with a camera, but I just don’t connect it to my local network, and thus not to the internet.

28

You cannot exclude yourself from the technology built into things, and I am in charge of 60+ computers for security etc. Now I have global control for policies, have it locked down pretty tight, My staff has to remote into a omputer with administrative priveleges to even upgrade any program. Sure it is a pain, but in case of a browser attack or addon that gets by, changes are not saved on reboot, even if a guy changes the ip address of a computer it will not stick.

Cars are a whole nother issue, there is not an option for the owner to control behavior as far as I know, and safeguards have been built in, but given the right motivation and so many avenues of attack, security lacks security.

Sure I have a screened in porch with windows, a skeleton key I figure is as good as anything, as bust a window if you want to get in, but my dogs are my security system, a golden and a cairn terrior, would probably help a burgalar carry out the goods, but love to bark from inside even as soon as anyone steps off the sidewalk towards the house.

29

Racking an 870 changes the mind of most sane thieves and mischief makers a salvo of 00 buck,sure puts things into perspective about property rights.I would like to see the 2nd amendment, Changed to read"you have the right to defend your life and property by any means necessary,meaning appropiate response" There are many things I would not tell people,that would make their mischief easier,some of these shock jocks and fiction writers are guilty of this.

30

Secure sites can be defeated, usually with the aid of an insider. It might be deliberate or not. Phishing gets the phishermen into a site by fooling an unsuspecting employee to let them in.

It seems to me that people devise devises like this for publicity. They show the system publicly at a conference and are immediately recognized as an expert. This can lead to consulting jobs or other ways to make a living that are not criminal. As mentioned in the article, Cadillac was already aware of the issue and had moved on to a second generation system that has not yet been defeated. Cadillac or Keeloq probably paid an earlier generation developer to help them get out from under the problem.

31

Even a “good old-fashioned padlock” is defeatable with a bump-key and somebody who knows how to use it.

32

kmccune I agree about the 870 and 00 buck although my personal home defense is a equally low tech Mossberg Police Persuader 500 with a mix of 00 and Magnum slugs.

That’s nothing to do with cars except for the fact that around here it takes the closest law enforcement vehicle 30 minutes to get here if they’re quick about it.

33

I like to talk big and have about a dozen rifles and shotguns but I’d probably be shaking so bad I’d never get the key in the gun case. Instead I try to live in a good area with few problems-at least so far but they’re moving in.

34

Fortunately, home invasions while the occupants are at home, are a rare crime in the U.S., and when they do occur, it’s usually a stalking ex spouse or rapist. Most burglars make damn sure nobody is home before breaking into your house. This is probably a unreported benefit of our freedom to own guns.
If you want burglars to pass you by, make it look like someone is at home, don’t do anything that makes it easy to tell when you are not at home, and wait until you are at home before telling the world about your vacation on Face Book.
Who needs to hack your data when you offer it for free on Facebook?

It also doesn’t hurt to have several Rottweilers in your fenced yard. Better yet, a herd of Chihuahua dogs, they are like geese, they make a lot of noise when someone enters and you can’t shut them up.

35

Burglars at an Illinois state prison were asked what the biggest deterrent to breaking and entering was, and they said a dog. If they heard a dog inside, they went to another house.

36

This has what, exactly, to do with cars?

37

I suggest driving a car that most car thieves don’t know how to drive, a manual transmission with a column shift.
Better yet something that you have to start with a crank and has the throttle and spark advance levers on the steering column. You might consider mechanically reversing the spark advance lever so that it gives full advance in the full retard position. It kind of makes cranking the engine a little harder.

38

^
I think that all folks who want to avoid car theft should do what you suggest, but that they should also be careful to buy only older cars that have a distributor. Then, they can remove the rotor every time that they park the car.

;-))

39

We put a hidden kill switch in my son’s car to shut the fuel pump off when parked and that was effective and cheap. Of course it was after the car was stolen once and recovered. Nothing like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

40

Well you look around your house(get acquainted-there are many weapons availible,if somebody wants to leave their brains on your threshold,you cant fix stupid) I very seldom lock my vehicles,people wouldnt want them as a whole and never leave tempting things in plain sight.BE SMART,about where you park,if you see someone hanging around that raises your hackles,walk on by,act like it doesnt belong to you,be bold not stupid,if you run and hide,you can live to fight another day,even if they have a pistol,high tail it,they probaly cant hit you and you are still at the scene of the first encounter,never be led or forced off into a compromising situation.if the car runs dont let a group stop you.