I agree with OK,at least the wind machines are mostly recyclable and employ a lot of immigrants during construction(come on lets annex Mexico,make it the 51st state,tell Puerto Rico to start contributing)-Kevin
I would have to say that wind farms can be well worth it, IF It is properly designed and located. That said, I suspect that many are not and never will be worth the effort.
It is not a magic bullet. I may turn out to be a part of a solution.
At least for the US most of the design and cost of the learning curve, has already been paid by non US applications.
After watching the wind farm going in here all I can say is that the amount of oil, gasoline, diesel, and electrical power being used to construct, maintain, and keep those towers going along with countless peripheral issues is almost beyond comprehension.
While agree that there’s a LOT of that…I’m pretty sure the amount of electricity produced more then compensates for it. Farmers in Europe and here in the US are building them and making a profit. They are NOT all government sponsored.
Right now, ALL wind power gets government subsidies, both federal and state. The federal subsidy may expire the end of this year, buy 30 states also have major programs in place to subsidize wind:
In the US…MAYBE…but NOT in other parts of the world.
Well, both Britain and Europe also subsidize wind and are having to cut back subsidies because of the economic crisis:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106390,00.html
Yup…looks like they are subsidized. But they get 1/5th the amount of subsidies the Oil industry gets.
If the oil industry can’t survive without their subsidies…then the wind industry is going to have a problem.
Here we go again. The oil industry FUNDS much of Britain’s and Europe’s economy, based on North Sea production. I guarantee the wind industry is not doing the same. So if there is some slight reduction in the taxes paid by an industry, is that the same as the subsidy paid to wind? Doesn’t seem so to me. And I imagine the subsidy on a per-unit-of-energy basis is much less for oil and gas. But the total $$ value is much better for headlines, that’s for sure.
The problem with the wind turbines is the impression that they’re pretty much plug and play while generating electricity out of free wind and that’s apparently not the case.
Those turbines are pulling a large amount of electricity from the grid while the blades are not even turning.
I can list things by the dozens that require materials and components for these things but that would eat up a lot of the internet bandwidth. Just one of those for example.
There were literally thousands of truck loads of rock hauled in (and still being hauled) to gravel who knows how many miles of dirt county roads and roads onto the tower sites. I have no idea where this rock is coming from but it’s not close by and an astronomical amount of fuel is being burned to get this one type of material here. This doesn’t even scratch the energy consumed for construction scenario and the energy consumed post-construction, nor the huge amount of fuel and asphalt used to repair the highways on a twice weekly basis due to the roads being mangled by the heavy traffic.
We the taxpayers are having to foot the bill for the latter.
People here are generally supportive of it though and there’s a reason why; money. It doesn’t matter if wind power is not what is claimed to be. A 150 landowners are cashing in to the tune of 5 million dollars per year; and all of which is passed on to the electric ratepayers. The school system is salivating over the anticipated windfall as are some others who stand to gain financially from it.
Putting The Cart Before The Horse. You Can Store The Energy In Fossil Fuels By Storing The Fossil Fuels And Produce Them As Needed To Generate Electricity To Match Demand.
There are no practical storage methods in place for wind generated and solar generated electricity in use at this time that store the amount of energy needed for times when the wind slows or stops and the sunshine isn’t at full power. If / when the storage problem is worked out then wind and solar could be stand-alone sources. Until then it’s just supplemental.
Solar isn’t yet practical in my climate region and we’ve got some windmills that are idle much of the time, sometimes days at a time.
Also, we’ve got some great 100+ year-old hydro-electric plants near where I live, but enviromentalists are shutting them down, tearing out the dams, and “restoring” the rivers to their “original” condition. Many riverfront properties are drastically losing value and taking the power plants down is only adding to a supply problem.
CSA
The oil industry FUNDS much of Britain's and Europe's economy, based on North Sea production.
So by that logic we should subsidize all industries that support the economy??
I believe in we should subsidize NEW emerging resources. I do however agree that it should be very limited in time. We can’t subsidize them for ever. I especially don’t agree we should be subsidizing a company that’s making RECORD profits.
Also, we've got some great 100+ year-old hydro-electric plants near where I live, but enviromentalists are shutting them down
Environmentalist’s and and industry should get together to find VIABLE solutions. Instead they just stand in their corners and refuse to budge. Some industries and environmentalists are working together. The logging industry is a good example. The fishing industry is another. But they didn’t start working together until it was near critical.
I don’t know why the people are so against trying to replace oil. Many don’t even want to TRY. If you’re against oil…then you’re against America. Eventually we’re going to have to look at alternative energy resources. Oil is NOT a renewable resource. It’ll be a LOT CHEAPER to do it now then later. And this isn’t even addressing the environmental issues. I know some people believe that Oil has ZERO impact on the environment. There are also people who don’t think Smoking is bad for you.
I know the same people. A fellow teacher and I were going over a pre calculus class lesson plan on exponential decay and half life and carbon dating. We talked abou how t this topic was related to oil exploration. He is the same guy who believes that the earth was formed in exactly 7days…by our time. Just like oil has no impact on our invironment, some people just can’t use what they know in one area and apply it to another because it’s inconvenient.
To steal a line from Lord of The Rings; and so it begins. The project is not even done yet and as of this this evening a 159 liens have been filed against this windfarm project for non-payment to a contractor with each lien showing 1.2 million plus owing.
It’s stated that ownership of this project had changed twice already since last winter with squabbles over tax incentives involved and the current project owner being a European firm.
I will also add that the projected service life of a turbine is 20 years and that overhaul costs are a half million dollars; and that’s in today’s money. If a turbine goes belly up due to the weather, wears out, or catches on fire the odds of it being repaired are about zero. Some European company who has already cashed in is not going to care one whit about spending half a million per to fix a turbine that goes south.
To go along with that projected service life, the maximum contract given to any landowner for land use was 20 years maximum.
Those turbines have to go through oil changes too; just like a car. The big difference is that while a car may take 5 or 6 quarts one of those turbines takes 80 gallons.
I agree, wind is about 10% max and really is an eyesore to the country side. I’d rather look at buildings and bill boards than wind mills. In Minnesota the environmentalists forced the power companies to add wind to their mix. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in it at all. The winners are the farmers that lease the land for them.
A far as wind power is concerned, it’s not the idea, it’s the politics and profiteers who have made it problematic. Locating these monsters within sight of houses causes visual stress from shadow polution. Yes, you heard it right, the flashing of light from sun being interrupted by the blades is a huge problem.
Now that Teddy is gone, they can be located out to sea where they should be.
You’re correct about the farmers. Around here they’re ecstatic over the windfall that came their way.
An elderly farm widow who lives right across the street from me and who is well of anyway said she’s getting paid a bunch just for allowing an underground cable to cross her land. She said that her lease payment puts her in a stunningly well off financial position.
The farmer lady next door to her was all for wind power at first and is not as keen on it now. She assumed her land was going to benefit her and traded her perfectly good very late model car off on a brand new one with the expectation the payments would not be a problem due to wind tower revenue.
Unfortunately, she assumed before knowing and the towers and cable skipped her property.
The farmers have to go along with the program though. If not, they will get whacked with the Eminent Domain stick as some in other areas have found out.
You should see these things at night. There are huge red lights on each tower and at night it’s lit up like Las Vegas. Those lights can be spotted from 15 miles away and the windfarm covers an area that is approximately 15 miles long and 2.5 miles wide so it does stand out.
The terrain is pretty flat here and during daylight those towers can be seen from 15-20 miles out.
I’m NOT a big fan of wind farms. I think the future in energy is more individual. Solar is one…The Bloom Box is another.
There’s so much waste in running power lines everywhere. But many corporations don’t want to give up that power/money.
I would like to see a comparison of the cost of generating electric power with wind turbines as opposed to generating power with hydro-electric plants.
Mike, It’s Not All About Corporations Not Wanting To Give Up Power/Money. Like Many Others, I Am Part Of My Power Company, A Rural Electric Cooperative.
They try and provide electricity at a low cost. When they make a profit beyond what it costs to operate, they return the money to the members. I just received a check from my coop last week.
Our coop buys some juice from a wind farm (as required by law), but it’s more expensive and availabilty is quite limited. Most of our electricity comes from coal.
If not for rural cooperatives, I wouldn’t have power lines and electricity.
CSA
Mike, It's Not All About Corporations Not Wanting To Give Up Power/Money. Like Many Others, I Am Part Of My Power Company, A Rural Electric Cooperative.
But unfortunately those are far and few between. My father-in-law is part of one in NY. Cheapest electrical service around. About 1/3rd what I pay. But here in NH and MOST parts of the country…it’s NOT true.
Most of our electricity comes from coal.
Coal is one service I think we should completely eliminate. Come to NH and upstate NY and take a look at what Acid rain from coal plants is doing to the forests and lakes. Many lakes in upstate NY are DEAD from acid rain.