Since 50% of US CO2 emissions are from coal fired electric power plants, an EV would generate some CO2, but only half as much as gasoline powered car due to the much greater efficiency of generating electricity on a large scale.
In total, then a hybrid which would still get 2/3 of its power from gasoline, would generate more CO2 than an EV.
In areas where most of the power comes from hydro or nuclear, such as Canada, an EV would be a real winner.
@Docnick - So you disagree with the DOE assessment, which shows the EV about equal to the hybrid and plug in hybrid in terms of CO2 emissions?
The future: An EV in every driveway, and a thorium reactor in every basement.
Jeeze… now I have to start saving for a thorium reactor?
@teaxses
I don’t get your line of reasoning. Is to solely depend on hybrids ? Is to not allow EVs in areas where power generation is from coal ? EVs are the ideal fex fuel vehicle. Everything from direct sunlight to nuclear to oil to water power to coal to who knows what ? Why wouldn’t we work to a future that included a steady advancement in EV technology ? The military is headed in that direction with contracts to use electric powered auxiliary vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells. That’s another possibility. But the electric motor as a drive motor in some form is "our destiny ".
Jeeze..... now I have to start saving for a thorium reactor?
First someone has to build one. Still theoretical. GREAT idea though.
Just this - to date, EVs are extremely expensive. The government (us) has spent billions of dollars, often on failed causes. This huge expense needs to be justified by a major benefit to EVs.
What is that benefit? It’s not to reduce CO2 emissions, hybrids do it just as well.
Trade balance comes to mind…lots of domestically-sourced coal and NG out there.
Trade balance is more about politics then cars. We just might succeed in becoming the nat gas supplier for Germany as a slap on th wrist for Russia. That will be wonderful. We can now compete more on the world market at a higher price for a domestic product. That’s why refiners want easy access to Canadian crude…to supply the world with American refined gasoline. And we all think there is an oil shortage . There is a profit shortage only. Buying congress has gotten to darn expensive.
@texases
EVs are expensive because they generate so little profit on the back end. If you can run an air pump or pour wiper fluid, you can do normal "tune ups " for EVs. ( oh, and change a cabin filter) Govt has to spend the money, just like Govt. has to sponsor health care for we elderly. For profits won’t touch either one. It has nothing to do with what is best. It has more to do with what makes a profit. A regional executive of Toyota told me, Toyota coud make a 150 mile EV, sell it for $20k and make a good initial profit…then in the next ten to 20 years after they sold a gazillion, their dealers would begin to fold…one by one by one. The Hybrid continues the servuce demand. The EV does not. Toyota wants little to do with EVs for that reason and just like they do with sports cars…they farm the technology out for both to Subaru and Teslar.
@texases I was responding to the post that said hybrids were better than EVs. The total is probably similar, but it depends on how good the hybrid is and how efficient the power station burning coal is. Both are better than no hybrids and no EVs.
When calculating the CO2 for EVs powered by coal fired plants you have to take in account the line losses and the actual thermal effciency of the plant, which can be as high ar 44%. On top of that is the actual efficency of your EV, which in the winter takes alot of BTUs to keep you warm, cool you in the summer as well. Government departments often don`t do a complete source to wheels analysis.
The quickest way fro the US to reduce its CO2 is to switch power plants to gas firing. That is not an expensive retrofit. It would reduce power plant CO2 by 50% and overall US CO2 emissions by
about 25%. That`s a lot less painful and expensive than implementing the new fuel efficiency standards, or susidizing hybrids and EVs…
Electric cars will always be marginal products, although they will become much more common.
P.S. the National Geographic this April has an excellent article on coal and its role in generating greenhouse gasses (CO2), and its role in climate change.
Agreed. And the switch from coal is occurring with the natural gas boom.
How about a CNG hybrid? That would be quite good, CO2-wise.
The natural gas boom will be short lived. Nat gas is going on the world market and we will compete price wise for it in the same way we do for oil. If at some point, and it will, become too expensive, we will find other alternatives. EVs will by necessity be part of that strategy. It is the ultimate flex fuel car. It is a nuclear, coal , oil and even water powered car. What is so hard to understand it’s practicality in any world or any power source ? It frees the owner to make choices where now he is fueled mainly by petro.
Norway’s electricity is 90% hydro power and they have massively subsidized EVs to become the first country with 1% of their cars EVs. The minister of transportation says they must soon dial back the subsidies because of the load on their grid when those 1% plug in their cars after work.
Speaking of Tesla, I just about got run over by a Model S today. I was walking in a parking lot and a Model S came through at a pretty good clip – a little too fast for a crowded parking lot, I guess the driver was in a hurry – and that car is so quiet I couldn’t hear it coming. I almost walked right out in front of it. Fortunately just before I stepped I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I think Tesla should consider adding a little more noise to it somehow.
I had always thought that the electric car would be the product of the entrepreneur and govt. support. It is proving to be true, except for the efforts of Nissan. They are selling like hot cakes in Norway; every one they can get. But per capita, Noway is a wealthy country and does not have to depend on for profits to lead the way in EVs which are profit limiting. I commend Nissan for sucking it up and taking a big chance. They are making money on these sales thanks to govt. intervention. It is really the only way it will “get er done” done expeditiously.
I guess Teslar will have to put “back up” noise makers even when the go forward. The unforeseen problems of driving electric.
But here in America, as the Europeans (Churchill) have always said, "you can always count on America to do the right thing, after they have tried everything else, " So it will take time and we will be behind, as usual. That’s the price we pay for allowing everyone the right to vote. 
The entrepreneur behind the Better Place project, to provide the infrastructure for electric cars in Israel, was apparently unsuccessful. I thought that his idea was a good one in a country that has almost no oil, and that is surrounded by hostile oil-rich neighbors, but it looks like both he and I were wrong.
That’s too bad. Govt. sponsorship ran out. Good ideas take second place to capitalism.
@GeorgeSanJose They’ve had that problem with electric trains too. People don’t hear it until it’s right on them, and tend to cross dangerously close to an oncoming train. Even worse with them since some of them clip along at well into the triple digits.
Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that EV cars will eventually get a loudspeaker that you can put your own “ringtones” into, and it’ll make noise whenever it’s moving?
… Mine would be the swoosh-swoosh from Knight Rider
I think there is a regulation now requiring manufacturers of EVs to put in a noise generating system for low speeds. EVs in urban areas have apparently created a very real danger for sight impaired people, who rely largely on their hearing.
It’s not too bad at all that “Better Place” went bankrupt. Swappable batteries is a bad idea, as long as they’re expensive as they are. Swapping out a $30,000 battery, stocking them, not know the condition of the battery you just got, large/heavy/expensive battery packs having be stocked all over the place to give any flexibility to the driver, all for the sake of a 100 mile ‘fillup’? All this makes the battery swapping idea nuts. Until and unless there are cheap (10% of current cost) batteries, no need to waste money on battery swapping.
The failure of a bad idea is a triumph of logic. Call it capitalism if you like.