The illegal alien issue gives some insight into the partisan divide

Clearly your perspective is not defined by Fox. But you should try watching Fox occasionally. Perhaps you’ll learn some of the reasons behind other perspectives.

I heard one of the administrations “experts” th eother day say that credit card use is up, and that’s a sign that the economy is improving. I think it’s a sign that people are running out of money. There are different ways to interpret the same data.

Interesting perspectives. This is not a dem or repub issue all though its being posed as one. Just because 11M illegals are in this country does not mean all of them have to be made legal. It also does not mean that all of them should get a crack at citizenship. A vote will distort politics. Responsibility is on side of individuals to not break the law and be within it. Arguing that its now the responsibility of the government to make them illegal is nonsense. What if we all removed our mufflers (its illegal) and if 11M of us drove cars that are illegal does it mean the government has to make driving cars without mufflers???

Well, since the title of the question was about insight into th e"partisan divide", it was framed up front as being a dems vs repubs issue.

I agree with your point. There need to be clarifications made as to who should be given the opportunity and who should not. A family who crossed the border years ago for the purpose of escaping poverty and has been living by our laws (other than their method of entry) should, I would argue, be given an opportunity to become a legal citizen. Someone with a criminal record or involved in illegal activities…I don’t think anyone owuld argue that he/she should be allowed to become a citizen. The millions who came on visas and never left are a gray area. I’d be open to suggestions for those folks.

@Same
Thanks for the invite. I know your motivations are true. But, I am way too pragmatic to go along with some of the non fact based opinions when really, that is what I see too often. To think there is still a debate about things like climate change for example on Fox when the the only scientists of any notoriety that disagree are bevioral scientists, whom they parade out with regularity. It’s difficult to take hem seriously though some of their commentators bring some out very good arguments. O’Reilly has excellent commentary at times. Then, instead of holding tight on what he does have for support, he like Rush, just start making things up.

The women are outstanding lookers and the background sets are good. But, Poor manors with disagreeing guests and Fox owner driven opinions make important news secondary. A following of the last election result returns with Karl Rove as a contributor epitomizes the Schizophrenia of there outlook on actual news.
I’ll stay with PBS…for the foreseeable future for news and catch msnbc and fox for entertainment…

But thank you sincerely.

As far as your referal to that administraive comment …there is an example of why I’m an Independent. Having said that…with the Ryan budget passing the house with nearly every Republican voting it which includes cutting every social program including privatizing Medicare so millionaires can have a $200k tax hike…I’ll probably vote Dems for now.

I tend to watch the news on the “World” cable channel, C-span, and the specials like Frontline. I watch the local channel for local news, but I honestly don’t know if it’s ABC, CBS, or NBC. Don’t care. They seem more focused on Lilo’s new parole sentence and Michelle’s new bangs than on what’s happening in the congress or the world anyway. But they do have the weather and local things.

All the channels are getting good looking weather girls now. I like it. Some are even getting good looking newscasters. I like that, too. As long as they do a good job, and they do.

Fox has one particular guy that I cannot stand. I don’t even know his name, but he goes by “BB” or “VB” or something similar. He has a hat size beyond measure, and he’s not very good. He has no in-depth knowledge on anything at all, doesn;t seem to do any research or get his few facts straight, and is pure opinion. I don’t watch the conflict oriented guys like Karl Rove, but I like the debate groups like The McLaughlin Group as long as they’re balanced with both liberals and conservatives in equal measuer and both sides are represented by knowledgable people.

Like many of the same programs too…Diane Rehm is an unabashed “no BS around here but have good manners, all of you or i’ll clear the house” interviewer, moderator.

I like that. . I think that whenever an interviewer allows their disagreeing guest to speak their mind without interruption, they get another watch, regardless of their personal views.

There is nothing called “you can break a law” because you are trying to feed a stomach. Making legal is one thing and making them citizens is another. All 11M illegals broke the law. Giving them a path to citizenship is a travesty. Taking away the fear of deportation through work permits is different. Its not the same as citizenship but its a lot better than living in danger. A crime is not determinant for who stays and who goes amongst folks who are already illegal. Both parties need fresh voters and vote bank politics is behind making illegal into legal. The hispanic community cares but I am not sure if all other communities care. What makes anyone think that this will not be an incentive for fresh waves of immigration?

Ramikumi, you made a valid point. But to seal the border and have it be respected, I think we need to come up with some way of dealing with the problem as it currently exists. Right now, our laws make children born in the U.S. automatic citizens, even if their parents were illegal immigrants. I think it’s only realistic to provide a path to citizenship for the entire family, assuming they’ve been living peaceably by our laws. Even if there are no children involved, if a couple or an immigrant has neem living peacably by out laws for years I think the decent thing to do is to give them a path to citizenship. It’s unrealistic to simply treat them all as criminals and deport them.

I absolutely agree that the border should be sealed and illegal immigration stopped. And illegal immigrants committing laws should be subject to prison…not simply to deprtation. But we need to have a humane way to deal with the current population too.

The thing that has become apparent to me is the Republican agenda as I see it. I live in WI so have a bit more experience with the agenda.

Corporations are people so they can donate to politicians. Unfortunately advertising counts.

Destroy the base of the democrats typically the working stiff, by outsourcing jobs to other countries, destroying Unions, limiting voting rights and school vouchers., ie Bachman giving the poor a right to vote is like giving a robber a gun.

Screw the environment and deny climate change. WI had a law that no sulfide mining could take place until it was proven safe. Now The mining bill has been approved that would allow millions of gallons of sulphuric acid to run off into wetlands etc. and allow for the filling of lakes and streams with mining debris, and allow a payment rather than replace wetlands that have been eliminated. http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb1/_60?down=1

Punitive damages for manufacturers liability of defective products capped at $200,00.00 k
"Punitive Damages Capped
The new law limits damages available to plaintiffs who ultimately are successful. Punitive damages now are capped at either $200,000 or double the amount of compensatory damages, whichever is higher." http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/products/articles/spring2012-wisconsin-tort-reform.html

Damages for discrimination lawsuits are eliminated. http://www.foley.com/wisconsin-to-eliminate-punitive-and-compensatory-damages-in-discrimination-cases-02-23-2012/

Groups of 4 or more must get a permit 72 hours in advance to have access to the capitol, and may be responsible for police and security costs. http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/walker-administration-slammed-over-new-capitol-permit-policy/article_422190e2-2030-11e1-8603-0019bb2963f4.html

Tax cuts for the wealthy paid for by social program cuts wrong!

The thing to remember is that laws are effective only when the majority of the people follow them and believe them to be necessary. My feeling is a lot of our elected folks simply ignore this and think just by passing more laws will have the desired effect.

Worse, some of us believe that the money being taken from us is not being invested very wisely for the future but rather thrown down a rat hole on dysfunctional families. Even worse, creating more dysfunctional families in the process, thus insuring an ever lasting dependance.

Not easy answers but we need to have more than 51% of the people in support of any position to make any progress at all.

This country is run by corporate boards who are allowed to lobby for the financial deterioration of American working families and then pay to propagandize that Americans are deteriorating due to their own laziness and irresponsibility. The vast majority of Americans want the opportunity to earn a living wage to provide a safe and comfortable home and afford to enjoy some leisure time. The welfare culture is the direct result of the lack of opportunity, not intrinsic laziness. The entitlement cheats are just like the day traders. Each jumps at every opportunity that they can recognize and take advantage of.

@rod
As a dysfunctional American I think I came by it honestly. I was a hard working stiff planning on three ratirement incomes. The RepublicAns took two thirds of my earned SS benefits and delayed my retirement As well as devaluating my second income investments with a recession. I’m pretty typical.

If they gain power they will continue to push for privatizing social security and Medicare cutting benefits for all recipients and increasing the deficit by paying for the vouchers to private insurance companies with
middle class payroll taxes. That’s their plan…to throw retiree funds into an already inflated corporate profit structure known as the stock market.

I wasn’t lazy…I worked at seven different jobs in a years time, year after year and went as many as three months straight, time after time with no days off. Now that I’m retired, I’m pushing seventy and considered a taker by Fox devotees cause I’m on Medicare and not pulling my own weight anymore.

The propaganda is working.

PS that was the same bachman receiving over 2 mil per year in farm and church subsidies that claimed "We cannot afford to extend unemployment benefits."
http://www.politicususa.com/bachmann-unemployment-benefits.html

Yeah she’s an embarrassment to Minnesota and just squeaked by last election. I don’t think anyone takes her seriously except like Limbo tends to say extreme things just for the shock value.

You mean EIB rush network means Entertainment In Broadcasting? And is not real news, just entertainment, by who and why?

I read the posts here and many are committing verbal diarrohea on republicans without any facts. I am a conservative with no real attachment to republicans. But I hold conservative values of liberty and less government. In every state democrats are the reason behind state deficits - state workers unions, pensions, union hours, etc. There is no job that the state does that cannot be done by private enterprise better and cheaper, including prisons, except the court system. The republican party has been led astray by its extreme tea party wing that has no idea about compromise. But someone has to remind the democrats that Bill Clinton was successful because he brought the democrats to the center unlike the current leadership of the democrats.

Corporations are making good profit and producing great balance sheets. That is their goal and they are doing great. The issue is the wallowing deficits of the states. Who is governing/

I’s agree with some points but disagree with others. In Minnesota it was a republican governor that threw us into a deficit. It was done through reducing income and doing little for expenses. He had the gawl to run for president but most people saw through that. I would agree we need to move to the middle though. In the 80’s, the Minnesota GOP was taken over by evangelists and they pretty much got rid of everyone in the middle. They won’t even listen to their old GOP governor or Senator its gotten so bad. The dems too have moved way left, so we keep alternating between the two looking for a center point.

I would disagree that everything should be turned over to private enterprise. There is nothing inherently bad or good with government. It is just another organization charged with certain duties. When politicians and special interest take over though, costs go up and efficiencies go down. Private prisons are a farce with low trained and low paid staff fraut with problems while the corporations squeeze their money out. Roads, health, natural resource management, fisheries, AG’s, labor and Industry, Insurance Commissions, and on and on no way should or can just be turned over to those that will just dumb it down and pull their 10% out at the expense of the taxpayers. Sounds good but just unworkable.

Just as work expands to equal the time allotted, expenses increase to meet the budget allowed. So the answer is to have high quality and well paid staff, tight budgets, and left alone by the politicians to get the jobs done.

@ramikumini
" there is no job that that cannot be done by private enterprise better and cheaper "

I hope you never have to call 911 for help and the person on the other end puts you on hold to see if you are a paid up participant, either through outstanding taxes of direct contributions.

You can have your rent a cop ! If cheap is the measure of quality, go back the bucket brigade and privately sponsored police “farce”. Been there and it didn’t work. Or, Just give everyone a gun and a garden hose…that’s cheaper still.

States are behind because most have a balanced budget amendment and federal aid has been cut dramatically for Medicaid and other funding because of two UNPAID FOR WARS and federal tax cuts.

If our state is any indication why there are more Republican govenors, here is why. He won with 37% of the vote because the progressive base was split by a Democrat and third party progressive independent. These candidates pop up when Democrats get too conservative around here.

@bing
Good response. You have more patience.

The difference between private and govt. sponsored service is found in this example
We have 4 miles of road divided ino two associations. One is a govt. sponsored statutory RA ours, the other is incorporated, theirs. The encorporated RA funds private contractors to do the work.

We being govt. sponsored were able to train two residents to be DEP certified in erosion control as we must do things according to govt. specs and need one on site to complete our tasks. We can use govt. matching funds, we have volunteer contributions, we always have a surplus. We have three miles of roads to their one. We have 12 cross road culverts to their one, a solid road that does not mud up and we grade it three times a year. They pay twice as much per resident for dues for a third of road that muds up and gets damaged every spring run off by neglect. They can afford just a once a year grading as gravel replacement is a big expense for them even though, their budget resouce is four to five times as much.

They constantly bicker and complain during their annual meetings about what to do. No one has an idea, except to charge more and pay their private contractor who isn’t certifide and doesn’t have a clue on how to properly manage a road except to do so in a way that maximizes his profit. You guys who live on dirt roads know how that works.

Our meetings are casual beer drinking joke arounds where we finish by voting to support just about what any one wants to do. When it comes down to doing the work, everyone eagerly helps and participates as their work pays their contribution and they don’t want to repeat it every year. We get our material at reduced rates as does one of the certified members for his own private business. We use govt. resources for equipment and engineering advice…often for free or nominal charge. Most of my neighbors, if not all, are Republicans and very fiscally conservative businesmen. But, we are practical and using govt. resources saves us tons of money and aggravation. They are conservative small govt. supporters in their private lives…but they are also pragmatic.

Because we have right of way over the private contractor maintained road, we just have to use 4 wd more often, drive much slower and wash our cars more.

" You guys who live on dirt roads know how that works. "

Most people who live on gravel roads were not forced to move there. I moved into my present location in 1987 knowing I would be living on a gravel road. I wasn’t complaining about it and expecting some kind of road entitlement from government.

We the citizens of our road formed a Special Assessment District, ourselves, and in 1988 a private contractor was hired to pave the road. Since that time we have had the road resurfaced one time. We chose not to live on a gravel road, but chose not to move, complain, or blame.

The reason the road needed resurfacing is because the County plows snow and uses a too heavy truck that is loaded with sand gravel, wing plow, and is way over-weight for our road (even exceeding the County’s load limit for our class of road), but they have no concern for any damage done.

The plowing is usually not helpful. When it storms they don’t show up for a couple of days. If it snows an inch they are there promptly, plowing and wasting tax dollars, damaging the road, when they’re not needed. I hat to see/hear them coming. The local driver, seeing all the cleared pavement usually lifts his blade and rides down the road, turns around, and leaves. That’s a good thing.

We the people on our road use tractors and snow blowers and clear sections of the road ourselves, otherswise we would not be able to go to work if we had to wait for government. I am the last house on a Cul-De-Sac. I clear a large diameter circle so the school bus can turn around. The bus always arrives way ahead of the plows and people head out to work ahead of the plows, too.

To me, the entire situation is an illlustration of government taking tax dollars and what happens when people expect services or entitlements in return that cannot be delivered. Government is not the answer to most anything I need. It just gets in my way and costs me money and grief.

CSA