“Does NJ still have a law saying you can’t have self service gas stations?”
Yes–unfortunately–NJ and Oregon do not allow self-serve gas stations.
However, that does not prevent me from taking care of the fueling process myself.
I frequently hear people in NJ say that they “are prohibited” from filling their own gas tank, and I then give them this challenge: Can you find even one instance of somebody being arrested, or fined, or prosecuted for filling his own gas tank in NJ?
Trust me–they can’t find any instances because nobody ever gets into trouble for doing it, and–in fact–almost all station attendants thank me for doing it.
If the act of fueling your own car actually put one in jeopardy of arrest or fine, I think that I would have had to pay some kind of penalty at some point since I have been doing it for close to 50 years.
@shadowfax, my point about the pricing is due to the claims that the Model S is the cat’s meow. There apparently a lot of people lining up to unload them. A wildly popular car as the Tesla S is claimed to be should really not be suffering any depreciation; especially on cars with 5k miles on them. Demand should keep them bringing new prices; at least in theory.
On another note or two, the electric company has a monopoly around here and my oldest son who lives in Utah told me that private ownership of liquor stores in UT is illegal. All liquor stores are owned by and prices set by the state.
“private ownership of liquor stores in UT is illegal. All liquor stores are owned by and prices set by the state.”
That’s not unique to Utah. PA & NH have similar policies, and there may be other states as well.
In NJ, our antiquated liquor regulations restrict people and corporations to only two liquor licenses in the entire state. Thus, Costco–which beats everyone else’s prices on spirits, wine, & beer–can only operate two liquor departments in NJ, despite the fact that they have ~10 stores.
There are two types of monopolies that the anti-trust laws were enacted for, vertical and horizontal. a horizontal monopoly is what WalMart is trying to become. They serve multiple industries, but because they are the biggest player, they can dictate buying and selling terms.
A vertical monopoly is what the oil companies were doing when the anti-trust laws were passed, that is they owned every step in the product from pumping the raw material out of the ground, manufacturing the end product and selling it only through their outlets. This is what Tesla is being accused of.
One of the conditions of enforcing the law is whether the monopoly is anti competitive. At this point in time, there are a lot of competing EV’s and there are plenty of viable alternatives to EVs, so it may not meet the criteria to begin enforcement, the the gasoline powered automotive industry may wish is was enforced to serve their own purposes.
Apple stores are franchises and Apple products are available at sources other than Apple stores. There is an Apple store on the internet, but the products are never cheaper than they are in the brick and mortar franchises.
Well my thougts,first I have always wondered what it would be like to buy a car factory direct,without the middle man and Tesla should be lauded for bringing electric cars to market in a signifcant way.Somebody has to help break the ice and lastly,I do not want someone telling how I can buy something,with the spectular flop of the Saturn experiment ,who knows? let it sink or swim on its on merits,I dont think the manus have much to worry about,the way Ford is going,they are liable to make a new Mustang-Kevin
In MD, one person is allowed to own one liquor store. And they must buy all alcoholic beverages from a state licensed distributor. This is the second year that internet alcohol sales are allowed. It’s mostly so that local wineries can sell their products on line. But the distributors prevented that for 25 or more years.
I can understand both side but don’t think it should be illegal and probably making it illegal will not stand up in court as constitutional. There are important services though provided by a dealer, whether people like them or not. Its kind of hard to send a car back to the manufacturer to be fixed, but if they have roving mechanics and they are really that modular, maybe they can get by with it. I suspect though if it costs $80,000 at the plant, adding dealer overhead in addition, would further limit their market.
Back in the 60’s when cars were made in Detroit, you used to be able to go directly to the Chrysler factory and get a new Chrysler at a pretty good discount. Had friends that used to do that. But you soon find that going from Minnesota to Detroit to pick up a car at the plant, even for a reduced price, was not all it was stacked up to be. You should be able to at least have some kind of a local contact to go to. Of course cars used to be sold at Sears so mayber Tesla could use Walmart service centers for their dealers. Get a $15 oil change and an $80,000 Tesla under the same roof.
A point that may not have been apparent to Bing is that apparently Tesla does have service facilities in NJ, but they are not located alongside the two “stores” that they currently operate. This is actually similar to European auto operations, where service facilities are frequently separate from dealerships.
And, regarding direct sales by manufacturers, probably the only forum member besides me who will remember this factoid is Triedaq:
In the early '50s, Kaiser allowed customers to pick up their cars personally at Willow Run. I don’t know how many customers did so, but they were given overnight accommodations in special Kaiser Corp bungalows upon arrival, and the next morning they were given a thorough run-down on the operation of their new Kaiser or Frazer car.
I don’t believe that these particular customers bought their cars directly from Kaiser, but they were allowed to take delivery directly from the manufacturer.
…and to return to the original point of this thread, yesterday the NJ Motor Vehicle Commission voted unanimously to support Chris Christie’s objection to the Tesla business model. If anyone in his administration was really interested in a valid hearing process, Tesla would have been notified well in advance of the date & time of this administrative hearing. In reality, Christie’s minions notified the Tesla folks–literally–just hours ahead of time that the hearing was taking place.
Perhaps the very large campaign contributions to his campaign by the NJ auto dealers’ lobbying arm had something to do with these actions, but I’m sure that the entire process was totally above-board and was non-political in nature. (NOT)
Thing is, the Tesla is nearly 100 grand new if you get the good one. People who buy cars in that price point are the kind of people who drive a car for a year or two, get bored, and go buy another 6-figure toy. These are the 7-series BMW drivers jumping onto a fad right now, and as soon as the new hot toy comes out, they’ll want to jump to it.
Those of us who want an electric car because of the freedom from oil price fluctuations can’t reasonably afford the Model S – and even if we could, at its price point it would take forever to make up the difference anyway.
Dealership groups trying to stop Tesla have nothing to do with it being an electric car. It has to do with dealers having to pay for huge buildings, inventories, employees, training and equipment to service their cars. If Teslas are sold in malls and mom and pop stores, where are you going to go for service and parts? What about recalls?
It seems that the major argument in favor of only allowing cars to be sold though dealerships is something along the lines of…It’s always been done this way.
If laws cannot change with the times as society evolves, then there are a whole lot of things that are going to stagnate. And, if laws had to remain the same because “It’s always been done that way”, we would still be burning witches at the stake, slavery would still be legal, women would never have gotten the right to vote, US senators would still be chosen by state legislatures, and debtor’s prison would still be the order of the day.
How much would a Ford Focus cost if you ordered it online from the manufacturer? In the land of “free trade” these sleazy dealerships are protected by law to monopolize sales and service.
If laws cannot change with the times as society evolves, then there are a whole lot of things that are going to stagnate.
There shouldn’t be laws either way. As long as the consumer isn’t getting screwed…why should there be any law governing how a company does business. I can understand trade laws…but this has nothing to do with that. It’s amazing that a REPUBLICAN governor would sign a law that prohibits a free market. Don’t republicans always tout how they are for LESS government intervention…and are for a free market.
The goverment has no business telling manufacturers how they sell their goods. From a company/dealer point of view, however, it is unfair for a company to start selling direct in a dealer’s territory. The after delivery inspection and warranty have to be done by the dealer, and this work has conderable less markup than regular service work.
I bought my first computer direct from Dell, as my second one and third one. The next two, an ASUS and a an Acer were bought from a local dealer who provides free transfer of all my data and installs an anti-virus program.
I could havebought these computers direct on-line but having someone nearby to take care of all the hassle is worth an extra $100 or so.
"It’s amazing that a REPUBLICAN governor would sign a law that prohibits a free market. Don’t republicans always tout how they are for LESS government intervention…and are for a free market."
It is my understanding that the NJ car dealer’s trade group donated $60k to his last campaign.
Not that this influenced the decision in any way, however…