The 1996 Honda no start mystery

Since its been cold I’ve had problems starting the car. It turns over but will not start. I have replaced the battery, and relay, to no avail, still having the same problem. When it sits cold is the worst, and the fuel pump is not priming when I turn the key. Although the last mechanic wanted to replace the fuel pump after replacing the relay with no success, I do not have any other “fuel pump” type problems when driving. Never stall out while driving, never misfires once it gets going. Even after the new battery install, a jump start will get it going. I’ve also had a curious problem with the radio lights coming on and off randomly. Could this be related to my starting problem by way of some improper ground? The mystery continues, any ideas?

How do you know that “the fuel pump is not priming?” You say a jump start will start the car, and then it never stalls out while driving. So how can the fuel pump be the problem?

The fuel pump relay for your car tends to act up when it’s hot, not when it’s cold. I think you are right to think this is not a fuel related problem if a jumpstart gets the car going. I think you have either a bad connection to your starter or starter ground or just a bad starter. I assume the charging system light on your dashboard is not lit?
If it is, the most obvious cause is a bad alternator, which is consistent with a history of repeatedly jumping the battery and actually, even consistent with your radio problems.

It could be that the ignition switch is failing. Many Hondas are under a Recall for this problem but I do not think the 96 models are.
However, just because a car is not under a Recall this does not mean that it won’t suffer the same symptoms and cause as a vehicle that is covered under a Recall.

There’s a lot of politics involved in Recalls and the end game is to try and make any Recall as narrow as possible in scope.

The fuel pump isn’t priming because I can’t hear it turn on at the test, when turning to key to “on” position. But I agree, it’s not clear the fuel pump is the problem, that’s just what the last mechanic claims, but then again, he also claimed the relay was the source of the problem.

Not the alternator, got that tested with the battery replace. Starter seems to be going fine, but if I keep having to turn it over 30 times for each start, I’m sure I’ll burn out the starter in short time! :slight_smile:

ok4450, do you have a link I check on to see if my car is included in the recall? What are the symptoms of an ignition switch fail?

Google is your friend …

It’s true google is my friend, and I have googled that already. I haven’t seen my car on the list so I wanted to know if there was a more comprehensive source than what I found, but what I hadn’t seen before is the “let me google that for you” link, so thanks for that!

Doesn’t look like the ignition switch, the symptoms all read the car stalling or dying, which hasn’t happened.

Since you say the engine starts ok when you jump start it I have to think there is a problem within the primary power bus area. Is there any signs of power when you turn the ignition switch on? If there isn’t any then check for power getting to the fuse panel under the hood. The trouble may be with the main battery connection to the panel. The trouble may also be with ground side of the power.

don’t rule out ihe ignition yet. there could be worn contacts in one of the circuits.
the electronic portion the switch is seprate from the key, and it’s not a complicated repair. the start circuit can be checked with a volt meter. it should be similar to battery voltage while cranking.

Ignition switches fail in more than one or two ways so keep that in mind. The fact that any symptom does not match the reason for a Recall does not mean for one second the switch is fine.

If the pump is suspect then why not run a current draw check on it. This could reveal whether or not the pump is dragging, which means it’s worn. A higher than normal current draw can also mean the fuel filter is clogged.
Keep in mind that a dragging or straining pump uses more electrical current. This means it’s rougher on the main relay (which I assume is what was replaced). In turn this puts a strain on the ignition switch and on down the line to wire connectors, fusible links, etc.

What gets me is the fact the problem is cleared simply by jumping the battery. If the ground from the jumper cables is being tied to the chassis rather than the negative battery post then try cleaning the battery to chassis ground connection to see if that helps.

UPDATE: After much debugging by following the flow chart in the service manual, I found the ECU wasn’t providing the ground to the main relay. Or at least, there was no short circuit to gnd when ignition was on. I took the car to the Honda dealership for their diagnostic. They thought it might be the ECU and replaced it with a known good ECU from another car and it started up, so they say that’s the problem. My next step is to get ahold of a used ECU and see if it fixes the problem for good. I still have my doubts.