I use synthetic oil in my 4runner and my Highlander.
The 4runner is the vehicle we use to go skiing…It’s not unheard of to have temps at -30 or lower in the White Mountains. And then during the summer the 4runner is the vehicle we use for camping and towing our pop-up.
The highlander - oil recommendation is 0w-20 which only comes as synthetic or synthetic blend (which I still don’t know how that’s done).
“… it seems like you’re asking someone to prove a negative. Are you?”
No. I’m asking someone to find data to bolster their case that syn oil is “hype.”
“What does my experience indicate?”
That you agree that syn oil is not “hype.”
I think synthetic oil has its place in engines where the oil is exposed to excessive heat, but if your car doesn’t require it, I think it is usually a waste of money.
Aren’t you the guy who, when you first arrived in this forum, repeatedly tried to make the case that buying a new car every few years or leasing was less expensive than keeping a car a long time?
If that is the case, how could you benefit from using synthetic oil in a vehicle that doesn’t require it?
I argue that:
A) If there is a benefit to using synthetic oil in a car that doesn’t require it, you’re not going to see that benefit until the car gets well past 200,000 miles.
B) Most naturally-aspirated liquid cooled cars don’t require synthetic oil. The manufacturer recommends 0W-20 oil for purposes related to fuel economy, and it’s difficult to find conventional 0W-20 oil, although it is possible.
and it's difficult to find conventional 0W-20 oil, although it is possible.
Who makes 0w-20 conventional oil? I’ve seen blend…which tells that 0w-20 conventional oil is out there…but I’ve never seen it.
Someone posted a link in this forum somewhere. I’ll do a search and see if I can find the link.
@MikeInNH, I think you’re right. I can only find 0W-20 oil in synthetic or synthetic blend. I remembered incorrectly.
I can only find 0W-20 oil in synthetic or synthetic blend
@Whitey - What I don’t understand is how are they making the blend. Blend is a mixture of regular dino oil and synthetic. Where are they getting the dino oil from to mix with the synthetic? Or is there another formula they are using to make blend? No one’s been able to answer that yet.
“Aren’t you the guy who, when you first arrived in this forum, repeatedly tried to make the case that buying a new car every few years or leasing was less expensive than keeping a car a long time?”
You couldn’t be more WRONG.
Apology accepted.
I’m glad to see that was a case of mistaken identity.
Having said that, I don’t think synthetic oil is all hype, mainly because in cars with turbos, cars with air/oil cooled engines, and engines prone to sludge, synthetic oil stands up to excessive heat better than conventional oil.
However, if you have a well designed, naturally aspirated, liquid cooled engine, and you’re using synthetic oil because you think it will make your car last longer, you’re wasting your money. I’ve been using conventional oil in my 1998 Civic for 260,000 miles, and I believe that if there was a detrimental effect of using conventional oil, I’d have seen it by now.
There are people I know who neglect their cars, and I recommend long life oil for them because I believe using long life oil and not changing the oil frequently is better than using normal oil and not changing the oil frequently, but only some synthetic oils are designed for longer use than other oils. If you think every synthetic oil on the market can be used for extended intervals, you better read the fine print.
Synthetic oil provides the 0 to 10 weight component and mineral oil provides the 10 to 20 weight component. That is one way to do it. It is mixed in the proper proportions to provide enough oil when the low viscosity oil is needed.
Another way to look at it is mix a synthetic stock that’s thinner than 0W20 with a dino that’s thicker than 0W20.
I have a little bottle of gauge oil I’m sure is a synthetic and it seems thinner than water, so extremely light oils can be made.
Synthetic oil provides the 0 to 10 weight component and mineral oil provides the 10 to 20 weight component.
That’s a possibility…but every blend I’ve seen or bought is 80% dino and 20% pure synthetic. I would think that it could no longer be labeled 0w-20 if 80% of it was 10w.
I just guessed at the amounts to illustrate how it might work.
“I think synthetic oil has its place in engines where the oil is exposed to excessive heat, but if your car doesn’t require it, I think it is usually a waste of money.”
My sentiments exactly. There are some synthetic fan boys out there just like the Apple i-Phone types. My Windows phone costs $100 compared to my sister’s $700 Apple phone. She borrowed my phone to call home (LA) because her phone had no signal while at a family reunion at the lake. There is nothing wrong with using synthetic oil when it’s needed but to simply throw money away when it’s not is baffling to me. To each his own however. I keep my gray beauty in my garage and my neighbor keeps her Lincoln (3 times the cost) in the driveway.
Synthetic oil is much more useful when engine is exposed to excessive cold. At -30 most conventional oils is like a paste…where as synthetic oil flows like oil.
@MikeInNH, but isn’t that a matter of the oil’s viscosity (0W-whatever), and not the fact that it is synthetic?
However, I’m happy to amend my statement and say “I think synthetic oil has its place in engines where the oil is exposed to extreme temperatures, but if your car doesn’t require it, I think it is usually a waste of money.”
Agree with HHR and Mike. Any engine with a turbo should have synthetic oil. We live in an area with cold winters, and a 0W30 synthetic has a pour point of -60F or so, while a 10W30 is molasses at that temperature. Even a 5W30 synthetic had a lower pour point than a dino 5W30.
Also, tralier towing and driving fast in very hot weather calls for synthetic, since it has much better film strength.
If none of the above apply, you can comfortably use a dino 5W30 in that old Ford Taurus.
I hope that clears up some of the confusion. Jet engine oils have always been synthetic because of the very wide range of temperatures encountered.
but isn't that a matter of the oil's viscosity (0W-whatever), and not the fact that it is synthetic?
I thought we establlished that 0W IS SYNTHETIC. And the 10W dino oil does NOT flow the same as 10W synthetic. Also my 05 4runner has an oil specification of 5w-30. You do NOT want to use 0w-anything if your engine is NOT designed for it. 5w-30 synthetic is MUCH better in extreme cold when 5w-30 dino.
@MikeINH NH Nearly all 0W oils are synthetic, but many 0W30 oils are partial synthetic to keep the cost down. I started using Shell SynArctic, a semi synthetic, in the 70s.
The viscosity INDEX (the RATE OF CHANGE IN VISCOSITY) is the key here. The vicosity of a synthetic changes much slower then that of a dino. Sort of like comparing butter with margarine or cooking oil. Margarine has a much better viscosity index than butter. A typical full synthetic 5W30 has a Viscosity Index of 171, while a dino 5W30 has a viscosity Index of 159.
In other words, synthetics allow the oil to thin out less at high temperatures and stay fluid at much lower temperatures.
The same company from whose book I’m quoting has a Supreme Turbo Synthetic with a Viscosity Index of 175! So the higher the Visocity Index, the better.