O rings are different. The glands they seat in are designed such that when the pressure to be retained is applied, the O-ring compresses into the potential leak path being protected, deforming to and sealing the path. Therein originates the term “gland”. The shape of the cavity plays an active part in the sealing mechanism.
Piston rings don’t work that way. The oil rings seal via the spring tension of the rings against the cylinder wall. The compression rings seal in the same way, but (in many cases) enforced by the combustion pressure from above forcing the ring in it’s groove outward toward the cylinder wall.
Many vehicles also have an extended warranty on the emissions systems. I can’t see an engine eating 1 quart every 300 miles being too kind to the O2 sensors, cat, and such.
Yes, I agree that this engine is on its last legs and you are fully entitled to a new one under this recall.
As for keeping the car after the recall, by all means KEEP IT! You have a several year old car with a brand new engine and likely several other important parts that had to come out during the replacement. You might even figure out what isn’t replaced during this and have certain other parts replaced at the same time at your cost if you plan to keep this car. Hyundai/Kia seem to make pretty good reliable cars overall so you might have quite a few years out of this one, especially with the new engine. Your transmission fluid will have to be drained when they separate the engine from the transmission so you will get new fluid in there too.
TSM, I know how they work. And I have not once had a coked ring stuck to either the upper or lower land sidewall. They have always been coked solid into the groove and must be pried out along with all of the sludge and coking. Regardless, the explanation I was addressing said “out of their ring lands”. You don’t pry them out of the lands, they simply press against either face depending on the direction of travel. Many people state it similarly and do not know the groove is not the land. That is what I was pointing out…
Fair enough. Perhaps it would have been better clarified if it were referred to as " stuck between the lands" rather than “stuck to the lands”. But in all honesty, I think that’s nit-picking the English rather than clarifying anything.
My clarification was regarding the difference between O-ring application designs and piston ring applications. They’re entirely different designs. Your post (below) may have left that unclear to many readers. It’s weird because when you’re talking about O-rings, the recessed area they sit in is called a gland whereas a piston ring sits in a groove and the raised sections between them are called the lands… - TT
“stuck to the lands”. But in all honesty, I think that’s nit-picking the English rather than clarifying anything.
OK so now you’re accusing me of nitpicking and you didn’t even get it right. It says OUT of the lands not stuck BETWEEN the lands. Big difference. The clarification is nothing can be stuck IN a land, OK?
The point about the Oring vs piston ring is that I found at least a couple of real mechanical engineers that thought because the “groove” for an oring was called a gland, that the groove for a piston ring was called a land. Sheesh…
CWATKIN: I called two dealers…one knew about problem and told me i would be getting a letter.
The other dealer, either was ignorant or pretended to be stating they had just been notified etc.
I asked the first dealer for a check of oil usage and they said a “diagnostic” would cost $57-109.
The other dealer could not even approximate.
I am not experiencing the problems listed on the recall but will having engine checked assure me there is no problem? I’m sure they will be only replacing engines that are having the two symptoms, which i am not…but I DO HAVE THE OIL ISSUE SO I’M not sure I can trust this car with this engine. The thought of it “seizing” on a highway is a real safety issue.
What do you all think? I am one of the "affected" vehicles....will that mean I WILL get engine replaced? Or is it only those that have the two issues cited? I will keep on adding oil but
am now afraid of this car having driven it freely for 5 years and now paid for.
Again thanks for the heads up on this issue.......Hyundai would have kept me in the dark until the official recall letter.
You may not get a replacement engine out of this future recall and your warranty will likely expire before the recall starts. It would be best to visit a dealer now and begin an oil consumption test.
TT, I’ve bent over backwards to meet you halfway, but if you insist on continuing, even becoming insulting (I caught that “real engineer” dig), do so without me. I can’t be bothered.
Now, back to the problem at hand. The Sonata. I scanned the posts to see if this has already been suggested and didn’t see it. With your Owners’ Manual you should have received a protocol for following up with problems. If you still have it, try following it to the letter, concisely describing the problem and including what you’ve learned about recognized engine problems along with the recall notice numbers.
Regarding your fear of engine seizure, know that engines don’t seize because they consume oil, they seize because the oil level in the pan is allowed to run below the level of the oil pump’s “pickup tube”. If you continue to monitor the level and don’t let it run out, it’s unlikely to seize.
The way the process works is that the oil pump draws oil from the pool in the oil pan, pumping it under pressure through channels in the crankshaft and camshaft(s), forcing it between the bearings and their corresponding wear surfaces. The fluid being pumped creates a pressurized fluid barrier to keep the metals from rubbing on one another. The tube through which the oil pump draws the oil is about 3/8" to 1/4" above the bottom of the oil pan. Excess usage doesn’t affect this process as long as the oil level is kept above the pump’s “pickup tube” in the oil pan. Seizure happens when the oil level gets below the tube. The pump then starts drawing air, the metals begin to contact and rub against one another (at thousands of rpms), the softer metals that the bearings are impregnated with get rubbed off by the harder crankshaft and camshaft metals, and the two bind together, seizing the engine.
In short, as long as you keep the oil level up the pump will pump oil to the bearings and the engine shouldn’t seize.
If Hyundai feeds you a load of hogwash that your engine is fine, and you don’t qualify for a new engine, you need to document everything . . . and fight them tooth and nail, as I said earlier
Your car is only 4 years old, and still within the powertrain warranty, for a few more miles
Even if there was no recall, I don’t see how they could “morally” deny you a new engine
I put that in parentheses because some dealers have shady morals. And sometimes the manufacturer also does
I wish it weren’t so . . .
I recommend first going to the dealer you bought the car from
Tell them you really like the car, but you’re concerned about the engine, and you’re counting on making things right
You might also tell them you hope to buy your next new car there . . . the implication being that if they don’t do the right thing, you’ll probably be shopping elsewhere
Yes, keeping the oil level up is a must. As others say, it probably won’t seize up if you keep the oil level full.
The issue you are going to have is fouling plugs, the O2 sensor, and the cat. You will also be polluting more. The oil will also get dirtier quicker if you are burning this much.
The part of the piston south of the oil ring is not a land; it's a skirt.
Absolutely, the oil control ring groove is bounded by the lowest land up top and the skirt below.
Nice picture reference I found if anyone is interested-
TT, I've bent over backwards to meet you halfway, but if you insist on continuing, even becoming insulting (I caught that "real engineer" dig), do so without me. I can't be bothered
Please. Halfway from wrong I’m not interested in.
The reference to “real engineers” was to further emphasize that not only laypeople make the mistake but if you prefer to internalize everything as if it is directed at you, feel free…
I think the problem is that an inspection may prove that this engine has no crankshaft defect.
Ten years ago there was a similar recall on the Chrysler 300 3.5L engine;
Subject
The engines in about 14,000 of the above vehicles may have been assembled with sand-like debris on the number two connecting rod bearing journal of the crankshaft. This can cause excessive rod bearing wear and result in engine failure.
Repair
The number two connecting rod bearing and crankshaft journal must be inspected. If either the connecting rod bearing or crankshaft journal is damaged, a long block engine must be installed.
Of the 7 engines of in stock vehicles that I inspected 2 required engine replacement.
I’m sure many Sonata owners believe they will receive a new engine because of this recall. 470,000 engines is a major expense to a car company. Hyundai will require a close inspection to identify which engines require replacement.
A GM truck I have and purchased new had the changing of the fluid in the differentials or the manual transmission (I forget which one) at 500 miles as one of the maintenance items. I figured this was due to normal break in and wanting to remove any wear metals. I asked around and was told that the plant that makes them is right next to a rail line and that sand and dust is known to get into the assemblies. Instead of cleaning up their plant by sealing out the dirt, they pass the cost onto the consumer because of the unclean conditions. You would think that they would try to do a better job keeping dirt out of these finely machined surfaces.
The funny thing about the Chrysler 3.5L is that is had relatively few problems although it is related in design to the 2.7L. The only failures I ever saw or heard about with this one were related to owner neglect and one case of outright ABUSE.
I asked around and was told that the plant that makes them is right next to a rail line and that sand and dust is known to get into the assemblies.
I find that funny…because every auto or truck plant I’ve ever visited in NY and Michigan - they ALL are next to a rail line. Back when the plants were built some 50+ years ago…railroad was THEE way to get their products to market. They either built their plants near a railroad line or they had a railroad line built for them.
I thought much the same thing. Most large industrial plants get their raw materials via rail and many also send the finished product out the same way. I just think they should seal the building so dirt contamination isn’t a concern.
