Anyone heard if boxer motor in car is any more/less reliable design than subarus notorious boxer? Why do so many subs have headgasket issues?
Subaru has addressed the head gasket issue in the 2.5l motor, and the FR-S has a different 2.0l motor that I doubt has the issue.
Toyota designed the heads on the new motor, so even if it were the same short block (which it isn’t) it would still be different. It’s simply way too soon to know how this engine will fare. It’s a whole new design.
By the way, I tried sitting in one this past weekend at the dealer’s. It is definitely not for the older driver. I had all I could do to get in and out of it.
TSMB - same here. And once inside it was TIGHT everywhere, not the car for this 6’5" ‘mature’ driver…
According to a representative of Toyota, they did have input in the car but mostly with basic design characteristics and performance parameters …make no mistake, .SUBARU assembles the the basic car, and make no mistake the boxer motor is made by Subaru. Toyota makes no attempt to hide all of the "made by Subaru " imprints on it. Whether it’s a whole new design with Toyota input as they do now have an interest in Subaru, who knows at this point. A 2.0 boxer is also used in the Impreza. In this day and age,.parts that go into the final assembly including injectors etc. could have come from anywhere, including Toyota. But I think the same could be said for an Impreza as well. But, IMHO, if you had doubts about all Subaru motors, you might as well have doubts about this one too. Personally, I would buy one in a heart beat if I didn’t need at least 8 inches of ground clearance and dinner on table.
I’ve read numerous articles with inputs from both Toyota and Subie reps, and how much of the overall car is Subie designed and how much is Toyota designed depends on what rep you’re talking about. The only things they all agree on is that the car is being built 100% by Subie and that the heads were designed by Toyota. Everything else is hazy.
Nomatter. It’s allegedly a great handling car. And I cannot get in and out of it anyway. I think the design is wanting, being very basic IMHO with today’s mandatory creases and accents. It’s a basica sports coupe without anything special. No sliding roof, no droptop (at this point), nothing particularly impressive. But nice. Prius tires, even.
I would have the same confidence in buying one that I had in Subaru in general. The same as having confidence in Toyota when buying a couple of Chevy Prisms years ago. Fortunately, it seems the car is built in Japan with Subaru built motor, where many Scions have a high content of Chinese parts. But you’re right. Who cares. Neither company would put their name on it without confidence in it and according to that crazy recciew buy CR, it’s well deserved. It fits me well, but not my road. I would need to hot top 1.5 miles of road just to get it to my garage.
Btw, all car parts are a little hazy to me . I’m sure many share the same subcontractors.
The best discription I saw for it’s genesis was…Subaru didn’t have the capital to invest, and Toyota didn’t have the room to make it.
BTW same…I had a 1/2 talk with the manager of our local Toyota dealer. He volunteered that the new Prius plug in uses a Lithium battery, not because it’s better, but Toyota couldn’t get either Sanyo, or Panasonic permission fom Chevron to build a large format NiMH battery. Somewhere they all get parts is akin to just " shopping for the best deal"
In addtion to the other valid comments, I want to add this info that I gleaned from Consumer Reports. Apparently the suspension “tuning” is a bit different from the Scion version to the Subaru version. CR noted that the Subaru handled slightly better, and that the Scion version had a slightly more compliant ride.
So…with the reality that these twins are assembled on the same line, with essentially identical parts, and with only a slightly different bumper, different audio systems, and slightly different suspension tuning to differentiate them…I think that anyone interested in one of these little sportsters will likely make his selection on the basis of which nameplate he prefers, or which dealership is easier to deal with.
And, like some others in this forum, I will not be one of the folks shopping for one.
After shoehorning myself into one, and then extricating myself from it with difficulty, I was ready for a session with the Chiropractor. These buggies are not for older folks!
VDC, all the other publications have made the same comments about the different “tuning”. Interestingly, in England they use a different name for the car.
But between Toyota and Subie this should be a good, reliable ride, whichever version one chooses. And I’m particularly impressed with the price. Ah, to be young again!
Ah, to have a young waistline and back again.
And eyes. And ears. And legs. And heart. And liver.
I have had my eyes on them too. Like the manual shift, RWD for my midlife crisis. It should be much more reliable and affordable than a 3 series.
Last visit to the dealer, they did not have one for a fit test. I am 6’ and have a bad back, from the comments here, seems like I would not be able to get in & out of this thing easily.
Getting to test-drive one at a Subaru dealership may be a bit of a challenge.
The last time that I was at my local Subaru dealership, the sales manager was whining about the ratio established by agreement between the two auto makers, and–IIRC–something like 70% of the production will be Scions (or Toyotas for the European market).
The sales manager stated that, although he had sold 5 or 6 of them already, he was unable to get one for the showroom. The only ones that have arrived are those that were ordered by customers. However, since this is a relatively small family-owned dealership, they might not have the sales volume necessary for the company to allot them a showroom specimen.
They aren’t plentiful at the Toyota dealerships either. The one I sat in was the only one they had and it was SOLD.
I think there’s going to be constant bickering between Subaru and Toyota on these cars. Toyota owns about 30%-40% of Subaru now (depending on who you read) and I’m getting the feeling it isn’t a happy marriage.
"Toyota owns about 30% to 40% of Subaru"
The most recent I read was a bump from about 8 to 16 percent. If it is now up to 30 to 40 percent, I would expect to see Subaru selling Sucoma trucks. I missed that.
No two publications seem to agree on how much of Subie is owned by Toyota. It may be because the deal included lots of elements such as assets the value of which can be calculated in different ways. I truely don’t know. But those were the numbers I’ve seen published.
An article back when the first purchase was made, indicated this would be an ongoing trend as they saw no way Subaru could be viable over the next dozen years or so. They felt Toyota would eventually have controlling interest. That’s why I would not doubt what you say…
I’m pleased to hear that Toyota is buying an interest in Subaru. That means more North American manufacturing of Subaru, too.
I as well see no downside. Both have good technology and manufacturing, Both should be winners.
JT–Actually, Subaru has been assemblying Camrys at the Subaru plant in Lafayette, Indiana for several years, but they scaled back the number of Camrys being made there after sales of the new Outback skyrocketed, beginning in 2010. The number of Camrys being produced there is inversely proportional to the number of Outbacks & Legacys that are sold.
This factory originally was jointly owned by Subaru and Isuzu, but after Isuzu cratered in the US, it became just a Subaru operation.