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Photo tickets and what constitutes a stop

Approaching a red light intersection with a %#$@ ‘photo enforced’ set, my son - driving my p/u - downshifted into second, then into first and then rounded the corner. What argument can I make to the judge to prove that a shift into first is a stop? Isn’t there some kind of synchromesh thing that won’t let you downshift if you’re going to fast?

The ticket is huge - in the neighborhood of $400 - for a maneuver that was perfectly safe, while a texting ticket is only $20. I want to beat this citation.

Sorry, you’re out of luck, he can shift into first with the truck rolling, so it’s not a full stop. Get a lawyer, but you may not be $$ ahead.

Around here a full stop is 2 seconds of stop. The bright side of Il traffic cams is tickets are not considered moving violations. Safe is not necessarily legal.

Just to be skeptical; were you there, or is that your son’s version of what he did ? I’d make arrangements for him to pay the fine and loose the use of the truck for a while…unless again, you were there or OK’d this rolling stop. Then the both of you should rethink your driving habits.

Speaking as an educator for 34 years, I can tell you that believing everything that an adolescent or “20s” youth tells you is…not wise.

Nor is it wise to automatically defend everything that he did or that he tells you he did.
A full stop is a full stop–not a rolling stop.

If he does not learn to deal with mistakes that he makes, a traffic ticket is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg in terms of the problems that you have to look forward to.

Guy in Phoenix drove around at 100mph plus giving the photo enforcement radars the finger, and he was wearing a gorrila suit. The DPS (like the Highway Patrol) put our resources to have the guy under survailence. Busted, they got pictures of him changing into the suit. (how do you spell survailence?)

Big brother?

Going slowly is not stopped. I don’t think you have a case.

If you are trying to convince us a rolling stop is perfectly safe, you might find some agreement here, but it won’t matter in court.

Stopped = NOT moving forwards. End of sentence. The real issue here is that they have your son violating the law, on camera, in evidence, which has been reviewed and catalogued by a real officer prior to the citation being issued (i.e. its not “big brother”, because a living sworn LEO had to verify the information before a citation was issued).

In short, your kid screwed up and got caught. Just because there wasn’t a crown vic in the middle of the intersection when he did it doesn’t mean he wasn’t wrong. It just means he tried to get away with an illegal manueveur when he thought no one was looking. On that note, I’d lock up the cash and liquor.

ninjaedit _ “…if you’re going too fast…” dude, NOT a good defense in traffic court… just saying… though I’m beginning to see where your kid got his free driving tips…

You can downshift to 1st at well over 10mph–I do it regularly. You can have locked wheels skidding across the intersection. Neither of which constitute a stop. A stop means no relative motion between the body of the vehicle and the ground, just like the way it should look when parked. And the maneuver might have been perfectly safe, but the judicial system isn’t going to evaluate every ticket individually, based on individual subjective opinions. It is going to evaluate your case based on objective, technical evidence.

Also, for future reference, when you stop, be sure that you’re at a complete stop BEHIND the limit line. If you stop beyond that line to get a better look at traffic, that’s a failure to stop. If you need to pull forward to check for traffic, you have to make one complete stop behind the line, then pull forward and stop again to look.

What argument can I make to the judge to prove that a shift into first is a stop?

Truly incredible. The apple really does not fall far from the tree. I hope the judge has a sense of humor. I know I’d be laughing my @$$ off.

I don’t understand your logic. Even if this particular car couldn’t shift into first while moving (which probably isn’t the case), how can you prove that the car was in first?

Brilliantly articulated.

One need not wonder where sonny got his propensity to create his own version of the truth.

My photo red light citation allows one to view a 13-second video of the violation on line.
Go look at it.
$400!! Why so much?
Ours are $75, with no points reported to DMV.
(Fortunately my citation was cancelled because I was driving an emergency vehicle red lights and siren. Still, I had to send them a letter - seeing the EV in the photos apparently was not good enough for them.)

Another leg pulling post Robt ? Say it ain’t so.

$400 for a rolling stop? Does your state amputate a hand for theft? Where do you live? I don’t want to go there.

Otherwise the kid is getting the book thrown at him for something else that he did or is on his record.

$400 for running a red light? Maybe you meant $40. Either way, your son is a dumbass and he takes after his father.