That’s my logic concerning oil and filters. Maybe the more expensive oil and filters are better, and might last longer. However, if you don’t try to make them last longer and test their quality, the more expensive ones are probably not substantively better than the less expensive ones.
As long as you follow the specifications, changing the oil at proper intervals is much more important than the brand or price.
42 posts to a thread that was answered correctly and thoroughly in the FIRST POST…Unbelievable…
Whether or not there is value in cutting open oil filters and evaluating their construction through observation is a matter of opinion, which has hardly been settled, at least to my satisfaction.
?Engineered fiber? huh? Well I supposed you can call it that but most people would still require the ?cardboard? reference to relate to the material so what?s your point?
For all you who seem to think using any old filter is good enough, how many of you actually opened up a used filter to see if the anti-drainback valve was still in place (if it was even there to begin with) and functioning correctly? Did you see if all the ?engineered fiber? was still in place or had it migrated into the engine? Did the glue holding the filter media to the end caps hold and did the media maintain integrity for the service life of the filter? Was the bypass valve installed and if so, was it installed correctly, did it still maintain the correct release pressure or did it fail completely so the oil wasn?t even being filtered at all?
How many of you could tell just by starting the engine if the anti-drainback valve had failed or not? How many of you have an oil pressure gauge that?s properly plumbed and also responsive and accurate enough to see where the bypass valve fail? Would you know the difference if it failed or didn?t work from day one?
Ya know, it?s not like there?s a huge price difference between a quality oil filter and piece of junk, for most applications the cost difference is $0 to $3 and they?re not hard to get either. Napa Gold are made by Wix and if you look in the yellow pages you can find at least one industrial oil and/or filter supplier as well as truck service garages where you can often get a multitude of quality brands and if you want to avoid the hassle, you can just order most of them on-line too. I?m not in the filter or oil business, I?m in the machinery business so it makes no difference to me what brand is used as long as it of sufficient quality for the application.
{{quote- ?you are personally seeing about 10,000% increase filter failures then the nation is as a whole.?}}
No, not an ?increase? just professional independent laboratory testing, accurate inspection and documentation.
Let?s take a look at the numbers for a typical 5-quart sump V-8 over 200,000 miles of use.
High-quality petroleum oil. Oil & filter change every 5,000 miles ? 40 changes total cost for 200k miles $920
Decent-quality 100% synthetic oil with a quality filter ? filter change & oil top-off every 5k (40 changes), oil & filter change every 15k (13.3 changes) ? total cost for 200k miles $595
Cheap oil & filters with change every 3,000 miles ? 67 changes over 200k total cost $1206 plus $1500-2500 for an engine overhaul at the 100-140k point.
Now, someone please explain to me the rational of buying cheap junk that causes premature engine failure, generates 54 times as much waste oil and costs more than three times more money than using a quality filter and decent quality 100% synthetic oil. No matter how you stack it, cheaper always costs a lot more in the long run. Ignoring all else, while you?re busy recycling your plastic shopping bags, just think about how much more waste you?re generating with all those extra oil an filter changes!
I remember seeing advertisements in Popular Mechanics in the 1950s for porous bronze oil filters. The filters supposedly would last forever. The filter just needed to be cleaned at each oil change. I guess the idea didn’t work out–I haven’t heard about them for over 50 years.
Here is even more, and more in depth from another site I peruse…
I don’t care what anyone says, seeing the quality of construction is important.
Some people would have you believe the quality of construction of your house and car don’t really matter, as long as you never notice a problem. Personally, I want more than to not ever notice a problem. I want there to never be a problem.
For a quick, easy look (although graphical, and not actually an engine), check
http://www.animatedengines.com/index.shtml
Seems like he covered most of them.
Ouch, I didnt make that site, I am responsible for the FramChallenge.com that starts June 1st. Please take a look and throw darts at me if you still thinks its advertising.
Apparently the only requirement for being an oil filter analyst is a picnic table under the shade tree in the backyard and the weapon of choice; a hacksaw or can opener.
(I use the shade tree scenario because that is one expert oil analyst claimed to have done.)
A lot of things posted by those backyard analysts and car owners who buy into conspiracy theories is downright lauughable.
“My engine had a rod bearing knock until I started using X branded filters and quit using Y branded…”
“When the filter gets dirty and clogged the bypass opens and allows dirty oil to circulate…”
(Apparently someone doesn’t believe in changing oil based on that comment.)
“A larger filter made no difference in filtering capability. The larger filter at 13k miles did not filter as well as the smaller one at 6k miles…”
I’m stunned. Who would have ever dreamed that a filter with twice the miles would not filter as well as one with much lower mileage.
A wild guess on my part says that an air filter with 20k miles on it would not filter as well as one with 10k and a vacuum cleaner bag that has been used 5 times would be much cleaner than a bag that has been used 10 times.
Along the lines of the use of the word “cardboard” the point could be made that head gaskets are also cardboard.
Mark,
We warranty our filters to be free of defects. If what you say is true, then we bought all 15 of those engines. And please do not tell me that there was proof the engine failed because of a filter defect and the engine owners simply did not want to file a warranty claim, nobody eats the cost of an engine just because they are too lazy to make a phone call to an 800 number. In fact, if you can supply me the defective oil filters, owners names and phone numbers, I will personally help them file warranty claims. And your genset maker? What was the company? Powered by Cummins who owns fleetguard filters, we took them to court and they retracted thise statements as they are in direct violation of magnussen moss warranty act.
I’ll pass judgment when the site is ready…but if the site was prepared by Fram to showcase their product…then it’s Advertising. Any tests/experiments shown are controlled by the manufacturer…Does NOT pass the smell test.
Actually, depending on how you’re putting the context, a dirty filter does filter better than a clean one. As the bigger holes in the media are plugged with crud, the more smaller particles that will be trapped. On the same note, the more plugged a filter gets, the more flow it restricts. In the case of a typical automotive oil filter, the more plugged it gets, the higher the volume oil that is bypassed and thus the less volume of oil that is actually filtered.
As for the “cardboard” … why then do we call it “gasket paper” or “pipe dope” when there is neither paper nor dope in either product? If you want to get picky about it, belts run on “sheaves” not “pulleys”, pulleys are for ropes. The time chain runs on “sprockets” not “gears”. It’s a “lamp” not a “bulb”, a bulb is what’s end of a turkey baster not inside a light fixture. “Wheels” typically run on tracks and are always solid, “tires” are pneumatic and are mounted on “rims”… now, can we have an adult discussion without childish nit picking?
Actually, depending on how you’re putting the context, a dirty filter does filter better than a clean one
Sure it does…Do you know what the bypass is?? When a filter gets clogged to the point that it can no longer filter the bypass valve is open…thus allowing oil to circulate without any filtering.
Go back and read the last sentence of the first paragraph -
{“On the same note, the more plugged a filter gets, the more flow it restricts. In the case of a typical automotive oil filter, the more plugged it gets, the higher the volume oil that is bypassed and thus the less volume of oil that is actually filtered.”}
Reading comprehension is to message forums as oil filter quality is to engine life. 
Powered by Cummins who owns fleetguard filters, we took them to court and they retracted thise statements as they are in direct violation of magnussen moss warranty act.
Would you please cite the name of the case? Do you have a case number so I can confirm your claim?
I’m pretty certain that Wally World is not the arbiter of quality. Cheapness definitely, value, possibly sometimes. Working conditions, most likely not. No doubt if they didn’t have some arrangement with Fram’s parent company, you’d be seeing some other filter being used.
I’m with ya, but I wouldn’t go 15K between oil changes, regardless of oil analysis. Oil is just too cheap of insurance to not change it more regularly than that. I change oil twice a year on two cars with full synthetic. The oil never has more than 6,000 miles on it when changed. I do the oil changes myself and use a Wix filter usually, or Mopar brand, which I think is actually made by Wix. So I pay $40-$50/year more for everything together–big deal. A replacement headlight on my newer car is more than that. An evening out for two people is more than that.
I used to use Fram filters. Before I ever read any of this, I had an experience with my engine clattering for a couple of seconds on a cold start. I switched to a different brand of filter and the problem went away. At the very least, Fram’s anti-drainback valve is substandard in my opinion.