So now that Fram has just manufactured their 40 bajillionith filter I’m still waiting before my time on Earth is through to see or even hear of one legitimate engine problem or one case of premature engine wear caused by a Fram filter.
Maybe I’m just unlucky.
I get a real chuckle out of some of those internet Fram complaints where complainers state that since they ditched their Fram filters their valve lifters are quiet on startup and their crank bearing rattle is gone. The placebo is hitting them pretty hard.
There exists absolutely no evidence that I’ve ever seen that any brand of filter bought at any legitimate store has any effect at all on wear, longevity, or reliability of any engine as long as the engine’s maintenance schedule is followed. Avoid filters from fleamarkets or the back of trucks.
Having said that, I liked the link. The individual that put it together made no pretense that he was providing any definitive performance data, he was simply providing general information. I think he did so very clearly, very organized, and very honestly. While I recognize that the data may not be usable to gearheads, people who have no clue whatsoever might just learn some basic things about car filters. To illustrate, if someone were to slice engines open and take photos comparing how the pistons go up and down and explained the bore and stroke, it may not be useful to many of us but aomeone who’s never seen a piston might learn a lot from it.
I think the person who developed the link did a nice job. And IMHO he made it clear that the site is not a guide to filter selection.
Over the years the failures that I have run across that were quite apparent and indicated poor design or poor workmanship include the threaded base stripping off the mount due to to lack of thread depth, filter media collapsing into the outlet and blocking flow, separation of the medium from the end plates, burst cannisters and faulty check valves. And there have been a great many people who have questioned an engine tear down because of a sudden loss of oil pressure but after recommending that they change the oil filter I never saw them again.
Just cutting apart the filters and measuring the total length of filter paper tells ME nothing about the efficiency of that same filter paper.
The number of pleats and the total length don’t tell the technical story of the filter media.
What is the filter media ?
Microns ?
Ability to hold filtered impurities yet filter even more ? ( this is why you change your filter when recommended. Oil may be flowing but is it being filtered ? )
Flow rate through filter media both clean and impurity loaded ?
Sometimes too many pleats too close together impedes flow rate thence efficiency.
Just because one manufacturer makes different brands doesn’t make those brands all the same. Many are built to spec for the brand name on the box.
Id like to see a study done on the filter media efficiency.
Oh, Lordy. The criteria of filter media for a specific application goes well beyond simply the size particulate filtered out. There’s total flow rate, flow rate per surface dimension, viscosity of the fluid to be filtered, total surface area, performance changes over temperature range, filtration efficiency, burst strength, and a whole slew of other parameters.
And then it means nothing relative to whether it has any effect on wear and/or longevity of an engine.
Naw, I’m comfortable with the current SAE approval tests. If it’s got the SAE stamp I’m happy.
That’s not to say an individual shouldn;t stick with his/her preferences. If one ever broke on me I’d probably never use that brand again.
Agreed.
This is why that filter disassembly in the link doesn’t mean a whole lot to me.
Here at the Ford dealer we sell the Motocraft and ACDelco lines but when others are needed we just call the parts house to send us anything ( CarQuest, STP, Bosch, yes even Fram ).
We haven’t see a filter malfunction from any of our brands.
I would note that the link mentioned by motorking in regards to the Fram filters also seems to coincide with a new ad campaign on TV that I’ve seen for the first time today.
The site is pretty much identical to the TV commercial for Fram filters so it’s Spam flavored obviously.
However, that does not take away from the point that I’m still waiting to hear of one verifiable engine failure, premature engine wear, or lawsuit over allegedly crummy Fram filters.
Wal Mart even sells these things in droves and uses them in the service bays in their TLE centers. You can safely wager your bottom dollar that if Fram filters were no good Wal Mar would have heard about it, and been sued, more times than the number of ants on a Tennessee anthill.
How many people have actually had a filter fail on them???
Me personally, a 318 Dodge crate engine that took a beating because the Fram cardboard. Since then, in the course of my business, I can name 15 right off hand I personally dealt with that were absolutely caused by Fram filter failures. A certain genset mfg used to have several warning stickers stating, “Use of any Allied Signal filter product voids warranty.” Fram, Pennzoil & Quaker State filters consistently failed all standard industrial tests except case burst/collapse - in contrast, Luberfiner, Donaldson, Wix, Baldwin, Fleetguard and Purolator passed all the tests.
As for the website in question, it leaves a lot to be desired and is not scientific. One need look at the “scientific testing in application” results to properly evaluate the quality or lack thereof in any filter. Automotive lubrication systems are seriously lacking proper filtering especially when compared to a piece of industrial equipment. Given the quality of some 100% synthetic automotive oils available today, with proper primary and secondary filtering and filter-only changes at the proper intervals, any standard 5-6 quart system should run no less than a 25,000 miles / 750 hour oil change interval. Even quality petroleum oil and a qualit basic spin-on filter should not require a change interval of less than 5,000 miles / 160 hours.
Key people in a company can harbor personal prejudices or hold informed or otherwise opinions just as well as people here on CarTalk. Just because they are a company does not make their view infallable.
I have been using Fram Filters for many years and also have not had a problem.
It’s not cardboard, the Fram guy here a few days ago called it an engineered fiber. The Fram site said that the epoxy adhered to the endcap fiber is the seal on the end of the filtration media. The engineered fiber is there to hold the epoxy.
I have no interest in defending Fram but find it a joke that people can look at a product and decide with their eyeballs what a material is and whether it is fit or not for the intended purpose. Also, not everything that is posted on the internet is true but I didn’t need to say that, did I?
And while these are only a small sample it does show how things can take off on the internet. Since Fram is the 800 pound gorilla in the room it stands to reason they get dumped on the most and their marketing department, which is a must, has a tough battle to fight. Read through the responses on the link below and you’ll see why I’m not envious of their job.
IMHO if you change your oil faithfully at the recommended interval (or sooner like some of us), it doesn’t matter what type of oil filter you use. I’ve always believed that faithful maintenance when it comes to changing oil, is far more important than the “quality” of the material used. I have a friend who is frugal (to say the least) and uses Wally-World brand oil and the cheapest Fram filter he can get his hands on and has been using these products for over 30 years on his cars and has never had a problem. Why ? Because he’s anal-retentive and changes his oil every ~3K miles !! I think if you faithfully change your oil that often, you could use any filter they sell. That being said, I personally only use Wix filters because I’m more comfortable with them - no other reason at all.
I can name 15 right off hand I personally dealt with that were absolutely caused by Fram filter failures.
Based on your stats…you are personally seeing about 10,000% increase filter failures then the nation is as a whole. Fram just selling your area the bad filters???
If there was more then 1 per million failures we’d be seeing THENS OF THOUSANDS of failure a year…Wallmart alone would see THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS…Sorry…still don’t buy it that Fram or ANY filter is failing at anywhere near what you personally experience.
I’ve had two fail on me. One was fram that seemingly fell apart internally. My oil pressure dropped to nothing whilst driving the TR6 I killed the engine and coasted to the side of the road. Checked the dipstick, it was full, checked for leaks under under the car, nothing was dripping. Had the car towed back home, removed the oil pump, replaced it, decided to change the oil while I had the car up on jack stands, took off the oil filter (we have an aftermarket spin-on filter adapter), and I could clearly see large bits of paper and other detached materials inside the filter. I installed a new filter and filled the crankcase with oil, started the engine and the oil pressure immediately jumped up to the normal cold idle range.
The second time was a couple years later (different car) the gasket on the oil filter failed the second I started the Bronco,( I was changing the oil) it dropped about a quart and a half of oil on the driveway. This time the oil filter was a Purolator though. I replaced the defective oil filter with another purolator I had on hand, and topped off the oil.
In these discussions, I think it’s important to define our terms. Some people doubt that a cheap filter will cause problems, in the sense of accelerated wear or engine failure, due to poor filtering. Others are saying that they’ve seen filters fail, which will obviously cause problems if it impedes oil pressure. These two are not really contrasts.
Having worked in manufacturing, I know that it’s inevitable that some defective parts will be produced. Most of them will be caught and pulled off the line, but occasionally one gets through and sent to a store.
Cheaper filters may have lower quality control, as a method of cost control. They may therefore have more questionable parts that are more likely to fail. While most people will never receive such a part, even if they always buy the same low-cost brand, there may be an overall higher failure rate.
I suspect that Fram filters are probably adequate at filtering (as long as they don’t fail), but it’s possible they fail more often. Again, most people who always buy Fram would never get one of the defective ones.
If everyone could afford to pay a half-million dollars for a car, we could all have cars on which every part and assembly is thoroughly tested and there would be very few failures. Likewise, $50 oil filters could be better engineered and tested, and fail rarely. Like everything else, it’s a compromise between cost and quality, and the consumer decides how to handle the compromise.