New EV Rules Announced for USA

Getting back on topic, it looks like Shell Oil sees some of the proverbial handwriting on the wall

Me too.
Every time someone talks to me about how “everyone should do for himself”, how we “don’t need any government”, and preaches the benefits :smirk: of Libertarianism, I ask them about the public parks, paved public roads, plowing of snow on those roads, etc. That quickly shuts-down the conversation.

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Yeah they are a neatherlands company now. These are the same folks trying to eliminate farms with the resulting revolt.

IIRC, Royal Dutch Shell has always been a Netherlands company. They did move their headquarters to London for a few years (as a tax dodge, I think), but they are now back in The Hague.

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First practical EVs were available in 1884. Benz built his car in 1886. So not exactly “long” before.

Calculated as “wells to wheels” EVs are not far superior. There are huge losses in electricity creation and transport, battery charging, battery current delivery and finally the drive. Edison’s battery capacity was better than lead-acid but more expensive. Ford’s wife drove a 1914 Detroit Electric. In any event, even with greater EV efficiency at the point of use, 1500lbs worth of batteries provided the energy of 1/2 gallon of gas (or 3.2 lbs!).

Those conclusions suffer when facts beyond the cost of the car are considered. Fuel availability being key. Bertha Benz took the first long trip (80 km) to see her mother in an ICE. She bought fuel at the apothecary because they sold liters of cleaning fluid - gasoline. Bertha would have had no way to charge EV batteries on that trip since less than 3% of rural Germany had electricity. The same problem existed across Europe and the US… there was NO electricity in rural areas, only in cities and not 100%. Liquid fuel, however, was available in drug stores and general stores and could be poured into the ICE anywhere. Gas stations came much later.

A simple search will show that a 1914 Detroit Electric cost $3750 compared to a 1914 Buick B55 48 hp 6 at $1985. A Detroit Electric was an upscale car, not comparable to a Model T. The EV could reach a top speed of 25 mph and the Buick 40 mph. The average speed on rural roads was 25 mph. The EV would go 80+ miles on a charge. The ICE about 120+ miles per tank. Only 50% of cities had electricity, only 3% of rural areas. EVs don’t work for long distance travel and don’t work for trucks.

The electric starter was first sold in a Cadillac in 1912… the rest of the ICE world quickly followed suit. By 1920, EVs were all but irrelevant.

Roads benefit every form of transportation not just ICEs because they were the majority. Highways are not just for travel for people but goods as well. The highway system was developed for national security but it was a huge boon to commerce.

Cars certainly made it easier for urban sprawl in the 60s and 70’s but they also made it far more accessible to middle-class workers. There were horse drawn carriages, subways and trains for New Yorkers or Chicagoans who did not want to live in the dirty, expensive city well before there were cars of any kind. That sprawl and cities unfriendly to blue-collar businesses helped to push those centers of blue collar manufacturing to the suburbs where the workers actually lived. So commutes often became suburb-to-suburb rather than suburb to city.

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Appparently they have had a dual identity for over a century with headquarters in both The Hague and London. Earlier this century they stopped operating as Royal Dutch Shell plc and Shell Transport and Trading Company ltd. And now are She’ll plc, he1dquartered in London. The confusing details are in the linked source.

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The Detroit Electric, Baker Electric, Waverly Electric and other similar early EVs were marketed to–and driven by–genteel, upscale/wealthy women living in cities and towns, so the price wasn’t really problematic for those companies’ customers.

The appeal for women of that time was obvious, as the EV didn’t have to be cranked or warmed-up, didn’t need to have its spark and choke adjusted as the car warmed up, and–most importantly of all–women liked that these EVs didn’t emit clouds of noxious fumes and an oily mist… as the ICE cars of that era definitely did. In fact, many (perhaps most) of the early EVS were designed to appeal to women only. And, the range of those cars was sufficient for the type of in-town travel that they typically did. Henry Ford even bought a Detroit Electric for his wife, rather than giving her a Model T with a chauffeur.

But–as you stated–folks whose homes weren’t wired for electricity certainly weren’t going to buy an EV, and as a result, the market for those early EVs was limited to people “of means”, and because they appealed almost solely to women, it was pretty-much a self-limiting market for early EV makers

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I suspect a large part of the appeal is still genteel wealthy women that do not care to check the oil or have it changed.

But yeah finally rural electric allowed South Dakota farms to benefit from electricity in the 50s. My fil was on the board and had a sign on his farm that bragged it was all electric. He had ice tractors and a Buick though.

Marketing EVs to women came later in history. Marketing shifted to women about 1909 or so because EV sales were not keeping pace with ICEs. Camille Jenatzy set a speed record in an EV in 1899 of over 60 mph. Genteel women care little for speed contests!

Compare the two ads for Baker Electrics… you can find examples directed at men and women.

image

Just a note, price does matter in 1914 as it does today. A Detroit Electric was the equal of a Buick in 1914. So there was a “chicken and the egg” argument of what came first… the EV as a viable auto or the EV as ladies transportation. I submit the “EV as a viable auto” came first. More evidence of that is the split of auto registrations in 1901… 40% Steamers, 38% EVs and 22% ICEs. ICEs played catch-up for a decade.

I agree the market was self limiting, but I contend it was the availability of electricity.

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There’s no doubt that ICE cars had fewer disadvantages than electric or steam cars in that era. Abner Doble finally resolved the disadvantages of steam, but everyone had moved on from steam by that time (1930s??), and Doble’s cars were quite expensive. However, I dont think that people are going to move on from either EVs or ICE at this point.

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Doble was a bit too late to save steam cars. Yes, by the 30’s steam and EVs were pretty much dead.

EVs kept a foothold in the UK though. Electric milk delivery trucks were common even up into today. Perfect for EVs with short distance travel on a defined route.

Being an avid reader of Popular Science as a kid, I read about steam and EV revival attempts in the 60s into the 80s. When i started working for Delco, we had 2 EV retrofits in development… a VW Rabbit and a Chevette.

The majority, maybe virtually all, of the vehicles on the highways between the 1920s and early 1990s used ICE for motivation. While any vehicle can use them, the roads were built for the cars and trucks that existed during that time period.

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Ironically, they’re called a ‘milk float’:

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I have seen 3 wheel versions on Brit shows set in the 1950s. I’d be more comfortable in that 4 wheeler, though. Flashbacks of Top Gear Reliant Robin videos!

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Of course Top Gear used the motor from a milk float, couple batteries and a generator, on a TVR chassis to attempt to make their own EV

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Who could even trot that monstrosity out in public?

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They did a lot of truly outrageous things on that program for “entertainment” purposes. They also falsified a lot of things for both entertainment, and to boost the image of UK-made vehicles.

At one point, they staged a race from somewhere on The Continent, to Blackpool, UK, using 3 diesel-powered cars. One was a Jaguar sedan, one was a Subaru Legacy, and I don’t recall the third one. Anyway, not only was the Jag the only one that didn’t run out of fuel, they showed its range–allegedly–increasing to a great extent as they drove at high speed.

Yes, it is possible–with very cautious driving–to slightly increase the projected range that is displayed on one’s instrument panel, but the increase that they showed during a high speed run was too great to have been real. That was just one of the many “tests” in which they showed the supposed superiority of UK-made vehicles.

That is truly a global company

The Vw polo did 75+mpg going from basil to blackpool. Hammond claims almost 80. Juat above the uk rating. Jag and Vw made it In time, james was 40min late in the Subaru going the long way. Us version only had one car make it to the finish.

I presume it had a small engine, maybe 1.2L? And it probably didn’t weigh much more than 1800 pounds. Still 75 mpg seems a little better than I’d expect The UK “gallon” is a little bigger than the US gallon, maybe part of the explanation.