The paints and glues used back then were at least if not more caustic than what is used today. You don’t think they didn’t stain or seal the wood did you?
Based on the quality of those vehicles, I thought they were mostly held together by hardware (bolts and rivets) and welding. They didn’t use nearly the amount of adhesives we use today. Can you please tell me, for my edification, which parts of the Model T Ford and the Model A Ford, for example, where held together with adhesives? Are you telling me treated wood outgasses as much as modern plastics?
Plastics and adhesives don’t outgass because they are caustic. Caustic substances, by definition, are capable of burning, corroding, or destroying living tissue. A material doesn’t have to be caustic to outgass. A dictionary can be your friend.
True enough. It does depend on perspective, but I think it also depends on whether or not the person has a functioning moral compass.
There’s no reason to care if you have a captive audience.
That is where I disagree. There is always a reason to take the moral high ground. Even if you don’t believe in God or Heaven, many do the right thing simply because it is the right thing to do. I guess we can aggree there are also people who need additional motivation, but not everyone is that self-centered.
I specifically said I think it’s wrong that some companies don’t care unless there’s an incentive. I just said that’s the way it is. There are some good companies out there who try to protect people and the environment, but if you can’t make it profitable, it’s tough to stay in business.
There was a cartoon in “The Far Side” titled “Dogs Going to Work”. Cars and buses were flowing along the highway carrying dogs and all the dogs had their heads out the windows. That was my motivation for the previous post.
The paint used on the Model T (both inside and out) were solvent based. So it would likely “outgas” for bit even after it was dry. As for the treated wood (and the afore mentioned paint) Have you ever been on a deck that has recently been stained? You can smell it for days. Same thing with a recently painted room. Also the Model T initially sported acetylene headlights, which also gave off fumes.
I just read it again. I understood your points already and I disagreed with one of them. That’s allowed, isn’t it? I agreed with everything else you wrote.
Thanks for educating me, FoDaddy. It is good to know we are talking about a difference in outgassing between days (Model T) ane years (modern cars). I guess it is a good thing most Model Ts took more than a few days to get from the factory to the showroom. I would be interested in seeing the difference in outgassed chemicals. I bet back in 1930 people were exposed to a whole different range of chemicals.
The story about “only U.S. made” cars outgas is a total crock. SAAB (a European car) even came out with a service bulletin some years ago about this problem on their vehicles.
Their recommendation was to clean the plastic parts with soap/water, mix a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar, and wipe the plastic parts down with it.
While it’s sad that your friend has problems what I would like to know is this.
Is it KNOWN for a 100% dead-on fact that outgassing of plastic parts is the cause of this problem?
If the vehicle is as toxic as claimed to be then why did your friend not notice this when looking at and test driving the car?
If your “friend” is expecting anything out of GM or the dealer based on this claim then your friend better be prepared to provide documentation from medical professionals that plastic outgassing is the actual cause of this problem and also have some deep pockets to pay the lawyers with.
Maybe the problem is that your friend simply has “buyers remorse”; a very common malady that a number of new vehicle purchasers seem to develop.
Who said only US made cars outgass? I have read in this thread (and in certain news articles) that European countries are in the process of banning materials that outgass toxins, but it hasn’t been done yet. Even if/when it is done, compliance will take time. We haven’t even talked about Japanese and North Korean cars, which I am sure outgass just as much. We just happen to be talking about a particular situation with a particular GM car, but that doesn’t mean this topic only applies to GM or American car companies.
I personally know two women who are sensitive to this problem. One I used to date and I used to work with the other one. Perhaps there is another reason they felt ill, but after being checked out by doctors, the doctors said they think it was outgassing. The woman I worked with was able to return her car to the Toyota dealer for a full refund. She had to provide documentation from her physician to get the dealer to comply. She then got herself a 10 year old Buick and was much happier…and healthier. It could be coincidence I suppose, but I doubt it.
“We haven’t even talked about Japanese and North Korean cars, which I am sure outgass just as much.”
I don’t think that there are any North Korean cars marketed in the US, or any other North Korean products, for that matter. Then again, there might be a good market for “Kim Jong Il elevator shoes” for short people in the US. He certainly does look fetching in those cha-cha heels that he wears.
;-))
Is it possible that you meant to say South Korea, or are they actually selling North Korean cars in the region where you live?
Who said only U.S. made cars outgas? Back at the bottom of page one of this thread the OP is the one who stated they read an article/internet/whatever that stated this.
There’s a lot of the story missing here and what story that exists is only partially provided by someone who is not even the owner of the car.
Based on past experience, and reading between the lines, here is my take on it.
You have an elderly lady “easily intimidated” in the OP’s words.
Said elderly lady received an inheritance.
Said lady “was pressured” by the dealer into buying a car.
It’s quite likely that what happened is that either this elderly, easily intimidated lady either waded into a new car purchase on her own or “had a bug put into their ear” by an alleged friend. (Yeah, you should spend that money on a new car the "friend(s) say)
After a few days or a few weeks buyers remorse has set in pretty bad and the buyer wants an easy out with a full refund, which ain’t gonnna happen; nor should it.
If a “friend” was behind any prodding to make this purchase then odds are the “friend” has absolved themselves of any responsibility in pushing this matter.
JMHO, but if this car is as toxic as claimed to be and affects the owner as much as claimed then I would think that the smell would have bowled them over when the door was first opened. If you’re allergic, then you’re allergic.
I would point out that buyers remorse is not a rare thing to occur and I’ve personally seen far worse excuses than this for wanting to bail.
If the car is that bad, and since it was obviously paid for in cash (a la inheritance, which is now sorely missed) then sell the car promptly, take a few grand loss, and consider it a lesson learned.
I suggest that your friend needs to find a support group, on line or in person, that deals with chemical hypersensitivity. There are lots of people that have this problem and probably even more that think that they have this problem. Many of them probably want to buy new cars. Someone may have figured out which cars, if any, they can buy new and what they might do to purge new cars if that is possible.
People knew it wasn’t good to eat paint, with or without lead. I guess that’s why they call it a “dumbing down” of society when all of a sudden we need Government agencies telling us what to eat and what not to eat. Now, in some places, Government is trying to dictate what kinds of fat one can ingest. Less is better, when speaking of government!
Have you any idea what being exposed to the radiation from cathode ray tubes can do to an individual? It’s not pretty. I hope you are new enough at this to have been exposed only to out-gassing plastic (some get quite warm) LCD monitors. There should be some regulations involving what we choose to sit near.
I ride a motorcycle.
Look, so you sold your car and now you think you are a hero. Big deal! You did not become a hero until you sold the car, so at one time you were no better than us car driving, non caring sloths.
You are still supporting the death inducing auto/truck industry every time you drop your token into the fare box, since…brace yourself, city buses have materials in them that out gas.
I am sincerly glad you own a motorcycle, they are a blast. But once again you are speaking without fact gathering and using good judgement and/or common sense. DON’T YOU REALIZE THE BIKE SEAT HAS MATERIALS IN IT THAT OUT GAS? AND YOUR SITTING ON IT! IT’S THAT CLOSE!
Whitey, please stop your needless and incessant diatribe. Please stop forcing your nonsensical opinions upon everyone here. I am sure you a pleasant person to know but please only speak of things you know about.