You are welcome. Some people just don’t get it. I think the best option is to get a used car since outgassing is most severe when the car is new. By the time the car is a 4 or 5 years old, most of the hazardous chemials will have leeched out and blown away, making the levels of exposure more likely to be tolerable. I am glad to see some European car makers are getting a clue. Isn’t it amazing how some people can spew ignorance as of it is knowledge? GM doesn’t have to use poisonous products. It is a choice, and GM should be taken to task for doing so.
Your friend should take this straight to GM. She should let them know their product is poisoning her. If they know how to do business, they should fix this for her.
I am sorry to hear the fumes are making the friend ill, but, all cars, even euro cars will out gas and the only way GM can fix this is to rip out the interior. Also the local ambulance chaser won’t stand up against GM. While Whitey is empathic to this persons problems ( which can be a good quality ) he is not using good sense concerning the car and/or problem.
Outgassing wasn’t a problem until car manufacturers switched to cheaper materials. If Ralph Nader hadn’t written “Unsafe at Any Speed,” safety standards would never have improved. Now they are killing us slowly (and some of us quickly) and many of you are willing to tolerate it? Some things are worth fighting for.
The folks who justify what GM is doing should take a look at all the folks who have justified atrocities in our history in the exact same manner. Some of the worst atrocities in history were allowed to happen because of similar empathy.
If this was my mother the OP was helping, I would be talking to lawyers. I would not bow down to the almighty automotive industry’s efforts to save a buck at my expense.
I am beginning to wonder if humans are vertebrates!
I have to agree with meaneyedcatz. Outgassing of plastic products in cars is really universal, and European cars are most definitely NOT exempt from this phenomenon. In fact, I have known of very similar situations with cars made in Germany.
I don’t doubt that the car is making the woman in question ill. However, that–in and of itself–doesn’t mean that the car is defective or that GM is responsible for curing the situation. This is a situation of a customer whose somewhat unique medical condition makes these fumes a problem for her.
Many hundreds of thousands of other people do not have a problem with this type of condition in their cars, so this is really not something that could reasonably be considered to be a defect in the vehicle. In a similar vein–if a customer with a spinal problem finds that the seats in his new car give him severe back pain, is the car company responsible for giving that person different seats?
Clearly, the only solution for this person is to buy a used car that is several years old. And, it is not the responsibility of either GM or the dealership to help her with the financial details. If the dealership wants to help her out with the vehicle trade-in and purchase of another car, that would be very nice, but it is not required of them. The reality is that the dealership is in business to make money, and most businesses do not function as a social agency does.
Dogs seem to be more intelligent than humans on avoiding the toxic fumes given off by the sealants used in automobiles. The dogs stick their heads out the windows as they ride along.
I would hardly call using materials that give off that new car smell “atrocious” to place this in same category as genocide is ludicrous. It’s not only GM who’s cars give off vapors/odors. Literally every car sold in this country will do that. And guess what, 99.999% of people can and do deal with it. It is highly unlikely that any judge or court would consider this case. Keep in mind that the customer bought the car via their own free will, nobody forced her into it. Anyone who has ever sat in a car that is less than a month old knows that?s what they smell like, it?s not exactly a big secret.
Then why are they banning those materials in Europe? And who said anything about genocide? I was referring to companies that have been found guilty of poisoning our water and air.
Just because our bodies are usually capable of tolerating a certain amount of toxins doesn’t mean it is okay for the toxins to be present.
Have you noticed how standards for acceptable levels of toxins have been lowered in recent years? As we march through time, we discover certain levels of toxins we once thought were okay are really causing illness over long periods of time. We used to accept higher levels of lead in our drinking water and particulates in the air. After proving links between these pollutants and illnesses like cancer and asthma, we lowered the acceptable levels. We used to think asbestos was safe. We were wrong. In that same spirit, I believe you are wrong to assume the toxins from outgassing plastics in cars are safe for long term exposure. The OP’s friend is just the canary in the coal mine.
Many hundreds of thousands of other people do not have a problem with this type of condition in their cars
How do you know that? How do you know long term exposure won’t give you cancer in 15 years? Some people buy a new car every couple years. If it does give someone cancer, what level is acceptable? 1 in 100? 1 out of 500? What if the one in one hundred is your child? Will you still think that it is acceptable behavior from the car companies? What about diseases like Fibromyalgia, for which we don’t know the cause? We might some day discover that exposure to toxins is the cause. How will you feel about having defended the car companies if that happens?
Try as you might, you are not going to convince me toxic exposure is something we should sit by and accept because we only see it directly affecting a few people. [i][u]Those people have rights too! A country as great as ours is supposed to protect the weak.[/i][/u]
I Played With Mercury In My Hands!
(All my classsmates did in fifth and sixth grade.)
Also, I have run with scissors! My school had bare asbestos on water pipes. This may even come as a bigger shock, but not too awfully long ago, car brakes and clutches were full of asbestos. Every time anybody in any car used either one, a certain amount of it went into the atmosphere. I guess I should’t have been breathing at the car dealer I worked in. The tehnicians there blew brake dust into huge clouds with an air hose.
All this stuff that didn’t kill me, has made me stronger. Now I can even go outside in acid rain! A lot of this stuff has to do with bigger government, regulations, and the taking of your freedom.
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You likened people who ignore the vile/deadly stench that a new car gives off to that of people who looked the other way when “Some of the worst atrocities in history were allowed to happen because of similar empathy.” I was simply stating genocide as an example since it’s widely considered to be something of any atrocity.
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As far as outgassing goes, it’s been going on for about 100 years. About the same amount of time as asbestos had been widely used. Asbestos had been known to be dangerous for people to come in contact with since the 1940’s. So it took 40 years for that to be known, in contrast cars have been mass-produced for 90 years or so. So far there hasn’t been any evidence that outgassing will kill you, and it’s been going on for many years. If there was a serious issue with it, chances are it would’ve been known by now seeing how scientists have come up with reasons why virtually anything you come in contact with during your life will definately kill you. Don’t buy into the hysteria.
The dogs stick their heads out the windows as they ride along.
Dogs do that even in very old cars and in the backs of pickups. They want to get every trace of odors into their very sensitive noses. They aren’t trying to avoid something inside the car.
I guess this is what happens when you go to a mechanic for health advice!
Boy, I never expected this much heated debate. I agree with Whitey, but I also realize that change doesn’t come overnight. The article I mentioned earlier in this blog was a discussion between Car Talk and Jeff Gearhart at the Ecology Center’s Auto Project. They have started testing cars and rating them by the levels of toxic gasses emmitted by cars. There are more cases of people with this problem than you may realize. And, as their discussion says, we really don’t know what long term effects the fumes will have on any of us. We may become sick and not even realize the source of the problem. My friend may well be the canary in the cage.
I realize that the auto maker is under no legal obligation to remedy the situation for her. But I’ve been in customer service for many years and anyone with experience knows that how you treat a customer with a problem can make or break your business reputation. If the dealer values his customers and the reputation he has in his community that brings them into his business, it would be smart to work with her and see what they can come up with in trade that won’t cost her an arm and a leg or him. That would be a win-win situation.
I too have worked in customer service for a long time. Perhaps that gives us a unique perspective. I didn’t think that anyone would need special qualifications to know poisoning your customers is bad business.
Wow. Did you really not know that was an attempt at levity? It was meant to be a joke.
FoDaddy, aren’t you the person who told a little old lady to “man up” earlier in this thread? I am shocked.
Outgassing has been going on since 1908, before modern plastics and adhesives were used in cars? Would you please explain to me how a metal or wooden car materials outgass?
The paints and glues used back then were at least if not more caustic than what is used today. You don’t think they didn’t stain or seal the wood did you?
Now they are killing us slowly (and some of us quickly) and many of you are willing to tolerate it?
Who said anybody was tolerating it, other than you? Everybody on here that has posted never said it was ok, what they did say was that all cars outgas. Also let me say since you are not aware of this, cars outgas for several years, I am not talking 4-5. My educated guess is more than 10. But, (wait, keep reading before you fire back) you can’t smell it after some amount of time. I am sure you have seen or cleaned the smeary film build up on the inside of the windshield, well, that is also outgassing. That film does not come from nowhere.
And while you are concerned that GM is killing us you might not realize that all cars outgas. With that said, what car make do you drive? Don’t tell us you don’t own a car. Oh… I thought so, you do own a car! Why are you tolerating this? Why are you letting your car make kill you? This is nothing more than a double standard. Whitey can jump everyone’s case concerning this but Whitey is also part of the problem.
I am beginning to wonder if humans are vertebrates!
Whitey, settle down, you are no better than anyone else.
With that said, what car make do you drive? Don’t tell us you don’t own a car. Oh… I thought so, you do own a car! Why are you tolerating this? Why are you letting your car make kill you? This is nothing more than a double standard. Whitey can jump everyone’s case concerning this but Whitey is also part of the problem.
meaneyedcatz, since you asked, I ride a motorcycle. I sold my car in August. I work at a university and I got tired of paying the high price of a parking permit. I also hated trying to find a parking space for the car. I also like saving gas. On days when I can’t ride the motorcycle, I use public transportation. I suppose if I had been thinking about this outgassing issue I would have sold it sooner, but I admit it was not a concern at that time.
Assuming everyone owns a car is darned presumptuous. Think before you open your mouth, will you?
I didn’t think that anyone would need special qualifications to know poisoning your customers is bad business.
Depends on your perspective. Tobacco companies exist for precisely this reason. There’s no reason to care if you have a captive audience. And trust me, Americans are just as addicted to their cars as smokers are to cigarettes.
I don’t think that’s okay. It’s just not going to be easy to change without real demand from consumers or force from the government.