Not disputing, but remember that every car owner has varying motivations for their car buying selections. The appearance of success may seem very important, so these owners prefer to display a newer Lexus or Audi or the like in their driveway, and accept the monthly cost as the downside. It’s not just cars, watches, colleges the kid attend, etc.
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Yeah I dunno. I just like nice stuff and not really concerned with what others say. I’m sure my neighbor spent more for his pick up than I did for my Acura but no one cares. I wax my washer and dryer just to keep it nice. No one know and no one cares. We haven’t bought a car for a while because I just don’t like what’s out there and secondly don’t like spending the money to get less than what I already have. Just because you buy new stuff though doesn’t mean you care what the neighbor has, spend more than you can afford easily, or have to sacrifice other needs. When we bought our first new car in 1974, I remember my wife being concerned that it was too showey. I guess there are all types but once you reach adult hood, priorities change.
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Have you noticed that most businesses now itemize just about everything having to do with a business transaction. I believe that is the result of the internet and the widely available information on pricing that everyone has access to and uses when they price shop. It has forced businesses to market their product at the lowest possible price to appear cheaper than the next guy. Once you’re in the store, locked in and feeling good about your price, then they have all the costs listed individually “that everyone pays”.
It used to be wrapped up in the total price and much less visible. It was very hard for consumers to price shop. You had to actually go to various places and spend the time to find out what they were charging. Slick salespeople were adept at getting most people to think they were getting the deal of a lifetime- and how were they to really know?
Then it all changed. Look at airline fees. Everything is broken out. My electric and phone bills are the same. Heck, look at a repair bill from an automotive service shop- hazardous waste disposal, shop supplies etc etc. Those have been costs all along, they just weren’t spiked out separately. When Joe Schmoe’s A1 Auto has an $80/hour mechanic rate but back charges for all the incidental overhead costs that would normally be bundled into the rate, he looks attractive compared to the all inclusive shop that is charging $95/hour. So they all start adopting this method- they have to.
Today, you can research the MSRP, invoice pricing, holdbacks, time the car has been on the dealer lot, days of inventory for a particular make/model. Just about everything can be found if you know where to look. So profit is much harder to achieve on a sale. Most customers search with numbers already known. So they have the same business model- advertise the lowest possible price of the product but not necessarily with all costs bundled in. Those are itemized later, after you’ve bitten the apple.
So now we have doc fees for auto sales listed separately. They are certainly legit costs of doing business. Someone has to fill out the title and registration forms, settle liens, research outstanding recalls on your trade in and so on. Some states even require the dealer to physically appear at the DMV to record the sale so they send a “runner”. Those are real costs. Where it gets muddy is, what is legitimate and fair? Speaking of which, you may find most of the time, even if you have no trade in, the doc fee is set. It should be cheaper for you, there’s less paperwork. This is done to avoid appearing as if they are discriminatory. It’s easier and safer to say- everyone pays this same fee.
To combat gouging, some states limit the amount of these fees- for the standard services. But the dealer is free to bundle in their own list of additional “fees”.
This is where bottom line or “out the door” pricing comes in. You should factor in some fair price for these services based on where you live and include that in your “out the door price”. Like was mentioned, I don’t care how you work the numbers, just that the bottom line number is $X plus tax and title.
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Just me but I rarely price shop for service. I have two shops that I use and rarely even ask for an estimate. Now for parts on line I look for price on items but for car parts usually just use one vendor that I have been happy with. Of course for local parts I’ll mainly go to Napa or the dealer depending more on availability. I also have only one additional transmission shop I will go to, in addition to the Acura dealer.
Why would you assume that everyone who buys an expensive vehicle finances it or leases it?
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… and when someone buys a car in a neighboring state–as I did–they have to send a runner (or other employee) a much greater distance to record that sale.
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Are there any members who work the paperwork side of auto sales or have worked that side of the industry? I find it difficult to believe that an office worker spends more than 5-minutes transferring the paperwork to the buyer’s name. Then an office worker may go to the DMV to submit the paperwork and they probably do several weeks to a month’s worth of sales at one time, so the travel time has to be “pro-rated” into all the registrations being submitted…
So, inquiring minds want to know, how much work goes into that Document Fee?
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Well, I bought a car yesterday, and paid the $749 document fee which cancelled any dickering I had done. The office worker spent about 15 minutes on paperwork, and then gave the the hard sell that I need a ceramic paint coating at $899, a seven-year extended maintenance agree which would have gone just four years beyond the normal warranty (for @2000), and an oil change and tire rotation package that would have thoroughly confused work done on the normal maintenance schedule. I rejected all those items. Then she handed me an itemized cost sheet that was incorrect, and handed me a corrected sheet that is also incorrect, and is so obscure that you can’t tell what figures were used to calculate the tax. I think I will be buying used cars from private parties again.
Difference vs. distinction.
Seriously? Do you know anyone that would tolerate waiting 3 to 4 weeks to have their paperwork submitted? They transact lots of cars a day, more than enough to go every day. Many sales involve trade ins so that’s two per transaction. How do you think the DMV person would treat you if you showed up with 50 title transfers or more? Around here might be life risking. Got the major stink eye for turning in 4 sets of plates once.
Even the boat title/reg runners go the same day around here.
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I was referring to the reality that some people pay cash for their cars–even those that are in a luxury category. There is both a huge difference and a huge distinction between paying cash and making monthly payments for either a car loan or a lease.
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Seems like the same thing. Say you buy 20 pounds of potatoes for $10; if you pay $10 all at once, or pay the grocer $2.50 per week for a month, not much difference.
Just to chime in again. It is not necessarily foolish to make payments rather than paying cash. One should not assume that financing a car is only for those that otherwise could not afford it.
You can do the math yourself, but if you have $40,000 in cash reasonably invested, taking that money out for a purchase will mean you are no longer earning interest or gain and traded for a depreciating asset. Just depends on the rates involved but you can still get 3% car loans figured on the outstanding balance and not the rule of 72. So you could end up loosing a couple thou a year in gains versus paying $500 in interest. Plus at the end still having the $40,000. Depends how averse to debt you are but math is math.
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Some seem to assume that the only reason folks buy expensive cars is to show off. Not true.
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I wouldn’t assume that myself. But it certainly seems like the case for some.
And not to say creating the appearance of success has no merit. In some cases, appearing to be successful could be critical to continuing success. For example it may well make logical sense to pay $15,000 for a watch, if that results in your customers more likely to invest in your ideas. One tech friend tells me he always wears a business suit to work – while most tech folk dress much more casually – b/c he generally gets better service at restaurants and retail stores.
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A neighbor kid maybe ten years older than me was always concerned with status. His first car was a red 56 merc convertible. Became a radio star. Last I saw him he had a big red caddy. I asked about him and had given up drinking but was spending his day driving an old car from bar to bar ordering coke. I asked about the caddy and said it was sitting in his garage with a flat tire unwilling to fix it. Don’t be impressed by people needing to show status. They may be crumbling on the inside.
+1
As I have mentioned previously, I know a guy who leases a new Caddy every 2 or 3 years, because “it really impresses the doorman at the casino when I pull up”. Meanwhile, he and his wife live in a 3 room apartment in a dodgy area because of their ongoing gambling losses.
By contrast, I have essentially the same retirement income that he does, but my 7 room home–on 2/3 of an acre in an upscale area–is fully paid-off, and I buy what I want, not because I want to impress someone at a casino, but because the luxury vehicle that I chose meets my needs, and I chose to expend a relatively minor extent of my savings/investments on its purchase,
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Quick, hurry up and down size before family members try to move back in, you have too many bedrooms now… 
only kidding
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Seems we can’t win for losing … lol …
Well, obviously, how would you know if the paperwork had been submitted or not?
But risking you calling me “Wimpy, Wimpy, and Wimpy…” I have on the last three occasions waited many weeks…
In Tucson, AZ., when I bought my new Dodge Ram 2500, I had to go the dealer and get another
temporary plate when the original one ran out at 30-days. Their excuse, it’s the DMV…
In Hampton, VA., when I bought my new Toyota Corolla, the plates arrived at about the 32-day mark… Their excuse, it’s the DMV…
In Newport News VA., when I bought my new Honda Fit, the plates arrived at about the 25-day mark, and I called them to find out if I need a new temp plate and the their excuse was… you guessed it, the DMV…
While doing some research on this reply, I discovered that in Virginia, that if you have not been issued a title within 30-days, you can return the vehicle for a full refund of all money’s paid…
NOTICE:… this fact might play into the buyer securing some concessions for the dealer, like: well, you name it… Dealer installed FREE Mud-flaps, Body side molding, a Spoiler, Free oil changes and state inspections for 5-years, even a free extended maintenance agree… Otherwise, you might take advantage of the Return Option…
If you still want to keep the car, the dealer is required to provide a written statement of facts describing the dealer’s efforts to secure the certificate of title or certificate of origin to the vehicle” to the DMV within the first 30 days period. When the DMV receives those documents, the DMV may in its discretion issue a secondary temporary certificate of registration that would be valid for another 30 days.
I guess it pays to know your rights…