Need help. Do I need a new starter? (video)

Maintenance/Repairs
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Hi all. Around a month ago my moms 2014 ford explorer stopped starting up. It’s cranks slowly and doesn’t start as you can see in the video here:

To make things more confusing, it is accompanied by a p0457 code which according to my research, means that there is a large EVAP leak (loose gas cap). Now i don’t know much about cars, but from what I’ve researched and what others have told me, an EVAP leak shouldn’t prevent the car from starting. So i think I’m dealing with two separate issues, but i don’t know much about cars so I could be wrong. My main concern is getting the car started though.

Anyways, i foolishly went ahead and replaced the battery, which didn’t change anything. I also added gas.

I then purchased a cheap multimeter from my local auto store, and ran a continuity test on the negative cable. It read .5ohms. Then i took the air filter housing off to get access to the wires connected to the starter and tested those, as well as the positive battery cable.

The starter had 3 bolts. The biggest bolt was 13mm and held the biggest wire in place. Then there was another bolt which held a smaller wire in place which was 10mm. The third bolt I wasn’t sure about, but after testing i figured out that it is actually the ground connection. (I Initially thought the smaller wire was the ground connection)

I took the bolts off because the outside was kind of dirty and i wanted to test against clean metal just to be safe. I knew that the bigger wire(13mm) was the positive connection, so I ran a continuity test from that positive wire, up to the positive battery cable. The battery was completely disconnected for this test, and i got .5/.4 ohms reading. I honestly cant remember if i did the same test for the ground connection at the starter, up to the negative cable at the battery. If it’s important i can go back and do it again.

I also did a voltage test. I tested the battery itself which read 12.16v, then reconnected the battery and ran the same test on the two starter wires using the ground from the 3rd bolt on the starter.

Here’s where I get confused. I got a 12.16v reading on the bigger wire that had the 13mm, but i couldn’t get any reading whatsoever on the smaller wire that was held in place by the 10mm. Neither voltage nor continuity. Is that normal?

Does anyone know what that wire is used for? If I’m not getting any reading on it, does that mean it could be my problem? In the video I watched, the guy called it a signal wire. So I’m thinking it must not be a closed circuit until its ready to “signal”…idk. I tried turning the ignition key (battery disconnected) but that didn’t seem to close the circuit.

The other tests seemed normal. So I’m thinking it must be a bad starter, or something is going on with that “signal” wire which corresponds with the 10mm bolt, or I am missing something because I am not a professional lol. Is there another test I can do to narrow down the problem? I would hate to spend money on a new starter if it isn’t the problem.

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That wire is a power wire, It will only have power when the key is turned to the “START” position.

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The thicker of the two wires that connect to the starter is usually a direct battery connection, always hot. The smaller wire is only hot during cranking. (The exact configuration varies car to car and year to year.) During cranking (key in “start” both connections should measure at least 10.5 volts. Probe voltage between terminal on starter, and starter case. Suggest to recharge the battery, then report those two measurements here.

If you find this test difficult to do, make yourself a pair of long test-lead wires, with alligator clips at each end. Based on the theory the voltage is the same at each end of a wire. Then you can connect one end to the starter motor, and watch the DVM display from the driver’s seat. If you have a moving-coil volt meter, that’s easier to use for this test, b/c the voltage will vary a little as the starter motor rotates.

That’s too low for a fully charged battery. Something is amiss. Should be around 12.6 volts. Perhaps you’ve drained the battery from many starting attempts. If so, suggest to recharge the battery using a shop battery charger. You might be thinking 12.16 vs 12.6, nearly the same. The problem w/that idea, the amount of battery charge is not linearly proportional to the battery voltage. 12.16 v means the battery is probably less than half-charged.

It’s nearly impossible to get an accurate low-ohm measurement using a DVM or ohm meter. Testing the connections from battery to starter motor is best done by measuring the voltage drop during cranking attempts. For example, a 0.01 ohm resistance will cause a 1 volt drop when the current is 100 amps, typical current for a cranking starter motor. It’s easy to measure 1 volt using a DVM.

Does your Ford use a separate starter selonoid located in the engine compartment, often on the firewall? If so, that part could be faulty.

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That could cause a hard-to-start believe it or not. If the purge valve is open when it shouldn’t be, which it shouldn’t be during cranking. If the purge valve is open during cranking, it could make the mixture too rich.

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And only when the battery is connected. That wire is driven by the powertrain control module (computer) when the key is turned to crank the engine. That signal wire energizes a solenoid that connects the 13 mm bolt wire to the starter motor and engages the starter gear to the flywheel.

12.16 volts at the battery is a discharged battery needed to be recharged. It should be closer to 12.7 to 12.8 as a new battery.

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The EVAP code is not relevant to the starting issue.

Continuity (ohms) testing is useless when checking starter operation. You need to carefully check and verify voltage at both of the wires on the starter while an assistant is trying to start the car. And then you need to verify the grounds are good as well.

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Decide for yourself if it’s a good idea or not but rather than messing with a multimeter, you can just use one of the wires of a jumper cable to provide a new temporary path to the starter. One at a time and see if it makes any difference… if not that solenoid under the hood is cheap and easy to replace. If not that, then pull the starter and have it tested.

Yeah but as said make sure the battery is charged and that solenoid George mentioned.

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Hey George thank you for the reply, i learned a lot from it.

Using the voltage drop test I was able to confirm that there was nothing wrong with the wiring. I went on YT just to learn about the test more so i ended up hooking my multimeter up a little differently, but i think the concept is the same. I got the battery charged like you said, tested the battery (12.5v), then hooked my multimeter up to the positive end of the battery and tested both wires. Then I did the ground test by hooking up to the starter itself and the negative terminal on the battery. Everything fluctuated between .20 and .50 of a volt.

So i bought another starter, put it in and the car started up. So again thanks for the info @George_San_Jose1 @Mustangman @asemaster @bing

After the car started up, it started smoking. Turns out one of the belts broke. Its the one that wraps around the alternator and a few other things. I looked up it and its called a serpentine belt. It snapped, and if i look under the car i can see bits on the belt on the ground as if it had been shredded.

The youtube video I saw made replacing it look easy. But im gonna take some more time to see if something could have caused it. No sense in breaking a new belt lol.

Idk why all these problems keep popping up. It ran fine. It sat idle for about a week and a half, but started up fine after that. Then few days later it has a check engine light, wont start, and a belt thats about to break lol. I’m hoping this is the last problem

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I should mention that i never touched the belt. I was working on the starter which is on the other side of the engine. I never touched the side where the belt is on

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It’s possible the alternator isn’t spinning freely, which prevented the battery from fully charging, and also damaging the belt. Make sure all of the pulley’s the belt goes around spin freely before installing another belt. (Manually spin them in the correct direction.) There’s another part in that belt loop called the “tensioner”. If you have more than say 80K miles on this 2014 vehicle, might be good opportunity to install a new tensioner. That part takes a lot of abuse.

A word of warning. In some serpentine belt configurations, it is possible for a diy’er to install the belt incorrectly, which could cause the water pump to run backwards, not something you want. If the old belt is still on take a photo or sketch out how it is routed over the pulleys first. If unsure, find the belt-routing diagram in a service manual, etc.

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That is why the engine wouldn’t crank, the alternator seized. Your old starter motor couldn’t overcome the excessive drag of the alternator/belt. Your video shows the engine struggling to crank.

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Ah ok. I tried spinning all three but only one of them spins freely. Idk what it is connected to but i have a picture of the diagram. I put x on the ones that didnt spin at all (either way)

image_2023-10-16_153659613
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Is it really possible that both of those stopped working at the same time?

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that makes sense

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The pulley on the lower left is the crankshaft pulley. It powers the other pulleys & won’t spin freely itself, that’s normal. It sounds like the only problem is the alternator is locked up, not an unheard of problem by reports here. This is definitely a problem you want to discover in your driveway, not on the road, so you had some good luck. I think the part in yellow is the “tensioner” I referred to above. I’m not sure what the lower right pulley is for, maybe the power steering pump. In any event it turns freely. In that case the water pump must be powered by other means.

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that looks to be the a/c compressor.

Possible electric power steering on this vehicle? and internal water pump? yikes…

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Say for purposes of discussion you worked at a car company, & were assigned to create that diagram. Would you label each of the pulley functions?

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I agree with @Nevada_545 likely the whole problem was the alternator going south. On the kids car the alternator locked but instead of breaking the belt, tore the pulley off. Maybe the belt was in better shape. Back to the store for an alternator, then see if the other pulleys are free to turn, like the air conditioner, tensioner pulleys, water pump, etc. or tow it to a shop for a full review. I think I paid under $200 for a new delco alternator from rock auto. Pre emotive repair and put the old one on the shelf if ever needed.

There is a well established principle that cars always work fine until they don’t. So you can wait until they don’t or pre emptively replace parts that are known causes of failure.

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A corollary of Murphy’s Law… The likelihood something else will break is in direct proportion to how badly you need your car!

Sometimes I think that is a square law not linear… and others a cubic function!

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No, because it’s obvious to a technician looking at the diagram which one is the crankshaft, tensioner, alternator, and compressor.

That reminds me, I have a new serpentine belt sitting in the garage. I should install it one of these days.

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I don’t think the alternator was the initial problem. A new starter solved the starting problem so I think the starter probably had worn out brushes. It sounded like a starter with worn out brushes or a bad battery.

The alternator could be the reason for the dead battery though.

For the OP. The three connections on the starter. One goes directly to the + battery terminal. The little one goes to the ignition switch and the third goes to the brushes in the starter motor.

When you turn the key to start, power goes to the little terminal and through the coils of the solenoid. The solenoid pulls up an internal contact that connects the top and bottom post together and sends juice from the battery to the brushes which in turn excite the coils of the starter motor. The solenoid also pulls the bendix that engages the starter gear to the teeth on the flywheel so when the starter turns, so does the motor.

There are safety switches and some other stuff but that is the simple story here.