I have a friend who has an early 90s Volvo 740GL wagon which has been a stunningly reliable and durable car. But I agree this may be a bit too old for us. I have just gotten a line on a fairly nice Saab 900s. This is a 1993 coupe with a manual transmission. It has 147K miles. Everything seems to be in good shape except the air conditioner which needs a new compressor (about $500 including labor). I owned a 1984 900s which was also amazingly durable and reliable. This is an almost identical vehicle, simply 9 years newer. Given that I know how to maintain this car, and what its weaknesses are, I think this may be a good option. Let me know your thoughts.
I have a suggestion and it’s not related to the type of vehicle.
You state you have an 18 year old daughter with a poor driving record. On top of that, your own insurance agent apparently thinks she’s an accident waiting to happen by recommending an old beater.
From the sound of things I would say that it’s not just a matter of liability but just how much liability should be carried on this car.
One wreck can easily chew through the insurance company liability limits and after that you will be on the hook for anything over; which means kissing any assets goodbye or visiting the bankruptcy court.
Raising the liability coverage to guarantee (kind of hard to do) protection for yourself may eat up more than the 250 you would have been saving.
Very true. I guess an umbrella insurance would be some help. But as I said, this 18 year old might need to use some other mode of transportation for a while. At that age I never thought I could get hurt myself or kill someone else.
Folks, we are spiraling out of control here. I need to nuance the message. This is an 18 year old girl with three tickets. She does not have any DWI, accidents or the like. One the tickets was pure bad luck. (1 mile over the limit.) I could have been given that ticket 10 days out of 10. She is not a dangerous driver. No one is going to die because this kid is driving. The fact that she is 18 does not help, insurance wise. I have driven with her many times and she is as good an 18 year old driver as anyone I know. I have probably had an equally poor driving record than her several times in my life, but not when I was 18. (I have been in some accidents and had some tickets, same as most folks.) The reason for the choice of car is financial. I had my agent run the rates on the 1993 Saab 900s which I refer to above. That car would save us $200 per month. That’s real money. It will easily pay for the car (at about $1000) in less than a year.
JH
I hear what you say, but I just want to add something for you to consider:
Most teenagers are reasonably good drivers when their parents or other authority figures are in the car with them. It is how they drive at other times–especially when in the company of their peers–that can be problematic.
Part of the problem is that she is 18 and you still think she is a kid. In the eyes of the law, and in my objective view (since I don’t know her), she is an adult. If she really didn’t deserve that last ticket, she should have challenged it in court. It would not have been that hard to get a one MPH ticket thrown out. Even if she had to plead guilty for the ticket, she could have easily gone to traffic court and asked for (and probably would have received) withheld adjudication, which would mean no points and no increase in insurance rates. I am willing to bet she didn’t challenge it in court because she was driving much faster, but the officer cut her a break and reduced the violation, which is common. Nonetheless, regarding the other two tickets, the only thing that will teach her any responsibility is for you to stop enabling her. Let her pay for her own car and her own insurance.
Also, is there any way (such as a ride from co-workers or borrowing your car) that she could get to her job without buying her own car?
I don’t consider this topic spiraling out of control.
In your own words you state she has a poor record. Your insurance agent also appears to have some doubts about her too.
You state she has 1 ticket for 1 MPH over. No way should she have been ticketed for this and this ticket should have been taken to court.
There’s not a speedometer made that is spot-on. All of them are off to some degree and that includes the ones in cop cars.
As mentioned, how do you know what her driving habits are like when you’re not around? Someone who is taking a state driving test with an examiner present will do everything prim and proper. Once the license has been issued then it’s anybody’s guess about how they drive.
You stated she had 3 tickets but only presented one. What were the other 2 for?
Moving violations or not?
[b]Does Your Insurance Company Offer Any Discount Programs For Young Drivers?[/b]
My son began receiving a couple of substantial discounts when he began driving.
He was required to view a video, do some reading, and keep a driving log (with some of the driving supervised by a parent) for a period of time in order to qualify for a “young driver discount”.
Since he began driving he has received a “Good Student” discount based on his grades in High School and college. He is now 22 and in Graduate School, but this discount continues to age 25.
Insurance on his Impala (with full collision, comprehensive, increased liability coverage, road service, etcetera) was never what I’d call really expensive, about $100/month ($600/6 mo.) and is now down to about $75/month ($450/6 mo.).
Speaking of liability insurance, I do advise the purchase a Personal Umbrella Policy when a teen driver is involved, and especially if you play golf, have recreational vehicles, boats, pool, and/or water front property, dog, etcetera, and have valuable assests to protect. My personal umbrella required me to increase my liability amounts before the policy was issued.
Also, you could install a driving monitor like the Car Chip or something similar just to make sure your child is abiding by your rules.
Click this link to Car Chip: http://www.davisnet.com/drive/products/carchip_products.asp
There is a section for parents of teens.
CSA
…to make sure your child is abiding by your rules.
Is an 18 year old woman a “child?” By the time she is 18, except for paying for college, your job as a parent should be done. The advisors at my local college call parents like this guy “helicopters” because they like to hover over their adult sons and daughters, and limit their ability to grow into independently-functioning adults. If you want to ensure this young woman lives at home into her 30s, go ahead and buy her a car, pay for the insurance, and install a device that allows you to monitor her driving. If you want her to fly from the nest, let her earn and support her privilege of driving. Otherwise, she will never learn that her actions have consequences.
What I said about the umbrella insurance wasn’t aimed at a teen driver. It seems that in this litigious society we are all up for a suit. I could rear end some car at some point. When you insurance coverage is less than what your assets are worth then you need an umbrella coverage. This is true even if you don;t drive. You will need an umbrella for home owner’s insurance etc. At this point in my life I don’t have enough assets so no smart lawyer would pursue them.
I don’t care who made it, 315K is a ton of miles. I’d run like heck from that one.
Your idea of an old beater is different from mine. I’d vote for an early '90s Buick LeSabre, Crown Vic or Mercury Grand Marquis (Same car under the skin) They can be had for under $1500. Stay away from those with the air suspension option. The only thing wrong with those cars is the fact that once her friends realize what a roomy comfortable car she has, she may become the most popular free taxi they know.
I said she was my child, not that she is a child. In the eyes of the law, she is an adult. However, my concern for her does not end when that happens. I understand that she needs to graduate from high school, and I fully intend to help her accomplish that. If she continues in college (a very high likelihood given her excellent grades and life aspirations), I will continue to financially help her for some time.
Like I said, in general, this is a pretty good kid. Very good grades in high school. Attending a mixed high school / college program in her senior year this fall. Will likely graduate from high school with a full semester of college under her belt, all at state expense. Other than her driving, I have no complaints. Yes, the driving is a concern, but should be considered in the light of her overall accomplishments and level of responsibility. In general, I would consider her significantly above average.
In terms of monitoring, the device I like is actually the car cam. See: http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/car-camera.html. This records everything that happens in the car, including speed, and so forth. And you can get one for around $100. Highly likely that she will have one of these soon.
Also, yes, we did send her to driving school in order to get one of the tickets reduced. And she did have good representation with the tickets, and getting out of the tickets was argued strongly by her attorney, greatly reducing the cost of the tickets, as well as the points in the process. Without this representation, it is very likely that her license would have been suspended. Which would of course have wrecked havoc on her other plans in terms of employment, education and the like.
However, enough debate about my parenting styles, please. Again, I would like to get back to the original question: What do folks consider to be a good, older used car in terms of reliability, cost to operate, and so forth? I am considering the 1993 Saab 900s. Another car I have looked at is the Toyota Camry in the early to mid 1990s. These things are like cockroaches. They are everywhere. And they never seem to die. I hit craigslist in Raleigh for used Camrys and got 345 hits. From what I can tell, this is one of the highest numbers for any car model out there. I have pretty much eliminated the older Volvos. I looked at two of these, and they were very rough. I would not be willing to have one of those parked in my driveway. No thank you. The neighbors would not be amused. I need to consider the appearance of the car as well. What I am looking for is an older car which is aesthetically OK (but not great), has great safety and reliability, reasonable cost to operate, and so forth. Any thoughts would be most helpful. Thanks very much for the advice provided so far.
Get the Camry or Taurus-Kevin
@VDC:
to be honest, she said her daughter drives an 06 xB. Not really the quickest(or prettiest) things around. 
The only thing that kept your daughter’s license from being suspended was a good lawyer? Ouch! Maybe she should be driving an old VW Beetle from the early 1970s. Those are so underpowered that it would be really hard to speed in one.
Amazing, but not necessarily rare. A parent who chooses to remain oblivous to the real problem here; a child with an apparent driving problem.
Three tickets that are known, a lawyer required to skate on some, and a refusal to even discuss exactly what the other 2 tickets were for.
Maybe I’m wrong on that 1 MPH over ticket. Maybe it was for much more; you just don’t know it.
To get back to the original question about what type of car is needed.
How about one with no engine? The make is irrelevant.
You see a lot of Camry’s that are old with high mileage for sale because people buy them. They aren’t necessarily the best deal for the money. For the same amount of money you can get a Taurus or a Malibu that is much newer with less miles. I say shop around and find a well maintained one.
Dangerous driving does not just involve speed.
If daughter is distracted (by the friends that she is chauffering, or by her cell phone, or by tuning her radio), she can be a dangerous driver.
If daughter is in the habit of tailgating (which, it seems, is VERY common with young women), she is a dangerous driver.
If daughter does not exercise adequate caution when pulling into traffic or when making a right turn on a red light, she can be a dangerous driver.
Without compiling an even larger list, suffice it to say that the speed of her vehicle is just one of many factors that go into whether she is a dangerous driver or not.
The program Tauruses,used to be a real good deal around here-I finally figured out why I had such good luck on Asian vs European vehicles(SAE VS DIN),really dont feel like elaborating,but I think the Asians oft times improved a good thing-Kevin