Long crank very hard to start when it's cold


#1

Ok I’m about to give up on that. Maybe someone will solve it. I have an automatic golf 2003 2.0 gaz. I bought it a month ago. The seller told me that he changed the battery and the starter, seems to be true it looks brand new. The day after that the car is not starting. It’d crank and crank and crank but nothing. But it was nice crank! No starter or battery issues. Than I do it again!.. nothing …after 4 time cranking for 10 second it seems to be catching up but than nothing. And thaaaan the car start but stall immediately… I try again and it finally catches. After that I barely press the gaz pedal and it stalls again. I start right up the engine no problem and let run for 2 minutes befor living and everything is fine I can use my car 2 hours later it will start. The next morning I bring my car to a garage (car didn’t start) i had to call a towing… and they tell me that there’s a problem with the fuel pump and it’s better to bring it to scrap he also told that the car has not catalytic. So they took a propane tank and spread it in the engine, and turn the key the car start right up! So easily!!! As the guy was towin the car, a friend of mine calls me. expert in vw cars tells me not to put it to scrap that he would check it! He scanned it and there was these codes

In this order:

02 sensor heating circuit bank 1 sensor 2 short
Ground p1117

02 sensor bank 1 sensor 2 heating circuit malfunction p0141

Load calculation cross check upper limit exceeded p1143

Coolant temperature sensor signal too high p0118

Intake air temperature sensor signals too high p0113

Mass airflow sensor signal too low p0102

Random multiple cylinders misfire p0300

Miss fire in cylinders 1,2,3

Camshaft position sensor not a plausible signal
P0341

Engine rpm sensor not a plausible signal p0321

Sooo my vw expert friend told me immediately that it was the crank sensor (rpm sensor)! I bought one, he installed it. It didn’t solve the problem. Than I changed the fuel pump and the fuel filter. It didn’t solve the problem. I changed the maf!!.. it didn’t solve the problem… than we scanned the car again and all the codes was still there even if I changed the rpm sensor and the maf sensor. It was ridiculous. Than an other guy working in a car parts shop told me that it was a domino effect… if the camshaft position sensor doesn’t works the rpm and the maf wont work neither! So I changed it to! And alllll misfires codes and maf codes and rpm sensor codes and coolant shit codes EVERYTHING was gone but 02 sensors. Due to the fact that I dont have a catalytic on the car. BUUUUT it didn’t solve the problem neither… the next morning I experienced the same annoying problem. The car would start if the temparatur was no that cold but after 20 cranks.

My vw expert guy came to my house to change the spark plug. The car didn’t move in a week when he came. Before he changes the spark plugs, By curiosity I sit in the car and crank the engine…VROUUUMM one shot it started!! I was confused!! Than he changes the sparkplug and right after I sit again in my car and…nothing …same problem… seems that the car was happy that day but not for long but… after a week parked?? He was just as confused as I was. He never saw something like that, oh and important to mention. Everytime I tried to start the engine I did the "key dance "thing. Turn on ignition on and off several time to built a pressure in fuel line but…nothing. this morning I unplugged the fitting on the fuel line right beside my engine and turned the ignition on and a nice and clean splash of fuel popped up from it.

And here I am today!! Almost giving up on that! Maybe the coil pack? but I have no misfire left now since the new camshaft position sensor. Maybe a leaky fuel injector I’ve been told and maybe a bad ecu… can someone help me???I’ve headaches just thinking about it. Yesterday the car didn’t start even with a towing boosting me. But this morning was -5 and it did start. With a little difficulty but it started and when I touch the gaz pedal it stalls immediately


#2

The cranks but fails to start problem isn’t related to the o2 sensor code b/c the o2 sensor isn’t used during starting. If you can get it to a state where it carnks robustly but won’t start, the next step is to determine if the problem is spark or fuel. Visually checking for a healthy blue-white spark at a test spark plug tip is usually the easiest way to begin. If you got good spark, then spraying starter fluid into the throttle body intake is next. If it starts fine then, but stalls, you got a fuel problem. A fuel pressure test would follow. If the fuel pressure is ok, and good spark, but you still got all these problems, you may have a faulty electrical system or faulty ecm. The basic test for the electrical system is this, only requires an inexpensive DVM: the battery should measure about 12.6 volts before the first start of the day. Immediately after starting the engine it should measure 13.5-15.5 volts. If that passes you’re gonna have to get some expert help b/c you’ve got either a problem w/the ecm, its connections with the rest of the car, or if you are lucky, an ecm ground problem. Make sure the engine, throttle body, and transmission are well grounded to the chassis, and that the battery negative is also well grounded to the chassis. Corrosion at the contact points to the chassis is a common cause of weird electrical system problems. It appears you got your work cut out for you, but don’t give up. Yet anyway.

There’s one fault-mode that can cause weird starting symptoms. If the engine is extremely flooded with gasoline, the spark plug can’t ignite the mixture even if the spark is good. For that you have to remove the spark plugs (check to see if the tips of the spark plugs are wet with fuel, they shouldn’t be), crank the engine to expel any gas in the cylinders (fire-gasoline safety caution), then let it sit overnight with the plugs removed to allow all the gas to evaporate.

If your car uses a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail, check the hose that connects it to the intake manifold. If there’s any gasoline in that hose, replace the fuel pressure regulator.


#3

Thank you for your answer!!What would cause the engine being flooded with gasoline? Leaky injectors? I’ve already checked the pressure regulator theres no gaz in there. The theorie with the flooded engine seems to be the problem!! The injectors are the only thing left to check with the coil pack. I should be able to check for the throttle, engines, transmission and batteries grounds I dont know were they are located I’ll make my research! I was planning on changing the ecu cause I dont if it’s related with but the car shift very weirdly, it’s like rough shifting and one time I was driving in the highway and the rpm was running at 5500. Like the car got stuck on third (its automatic car bdw)


#4

Leaky injectors are one possibility of a flooded engine. Others are too high of fuel pressure, and ECM/sensor problems. Fuel system testing is another common cause of a flooded engine. As far as sensors, for example if the engine coolant temp sensor was faulty, the computer may think it is -30 deg F all the time, and pump out a lot of gas into the injectors, when in fact much less gas is needed. Before replacing the ECM you really should get help from a shop w/expertise in VW’s, b/c they’ll have a VW scan tool and can eliminate a lot of stuff right off the bat. In fact they may be able to narrow it down to a couple of things, then you can replace those parts if you want to do it yourself. It sounds like you may have an automatic transmission problem going on there too. The first step is to verify the trans fluid level is correct. If it is, then try changing it out, install fresh fluid (buy from VW), and replace the trans filter (buy from VW) if such a thing is easy to do on your car.


#5

Is it true that if I pres the accelerator pedal before cranking will cut off the fuel? Would be good to burn the gas in the engine without drowning it


#6

Turn the key to run, push the accelerator pedal to the floor and hold it there, crank engine.


#7

Good advise above. But I also would recommend waiting on ecu replacement. The multiple trouble codes could have appeared because of the excess cranking. That can create a low voltage enviroment causing multiple faults.


#8

I received more help from you all than anybody else thanks a lot guys!! I’ll keep you updated!


#9

What would explain the fact that when garage guys put propane in the engine they could start it to pull the car of the garage and once it was outside they reconnected the fuel line and when I tried to start it took several time to start. This morning I’ve been boosted and the car wont start. It just cranks for ever, its been 3 days the car is sit


#10

Seeing that it has a new fuel pump, I’m assuming that the mechanic checked pressure with gage, it runs on alternative fuel. I’m suggesting bad or contaminated gasoline.


#11

Ok so a friend of mine boosted. I had to leave the hood open for 2 hours and it started, not a clean start though it was misfiring a lot for at least 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes the car stalled once. Then the misfired stop and I could leave. So what does it look like? A leak in the injectors?


#12

Important to mention, before that two taxis came to boost me, i didn’t opened the hood at that point, and the car just cranked and it didn’t work. After that I opened the hood for two hours. If the leaky injectors are the problems, tommorow if I take off a spark plug and I should see fuel inside the whole right?


#13

If you have a flooded engine you might see the tip of the spark plug coated w/wet fuel. If you see that, it still doesn’t imply leaky injectors are the cause. Leaky injectors are a very uncommon thing reported here. I’m guessing the spark plug won’t be wet, given the propane experiment results.


#14


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#16

I took of two spark plugs this morning and there are dark spots and they smell gaz. I dont know if they smell enough to say that this is the problem but there’s a gaz smell. It started easily cause it’s like 0° outside


#17

First, I don’t think your engine is flooded. All your symptoms point to lack of fuel, not too much. If the engine was running, even roughly because of too much fuel and you step on the accelerator pedal, it would run better, not stall.

The one thing that would cause all your problems, and there is a code for it is the P0118, coolant temperature sensor too high. To me it is odd that with all the mechanics that looked at this problem and none of them replaced the coolant temp sensor.

BTW, you might have two coolant temp sensors, one for the computer and one for the gauge or cooling fans. If it was a 2006 or later, it would probably only have one but some vehicles prior to this did have two.


#18

I only found the green one I planned to change it today. Also since yesterday the coolant dashboard light came for the first time, I’m under the minimum in the expansion tank I dont know if it as something to do. Its 2003 golf I dont if there is a second coolant temp sensor