I was not using the dipstick length to excuse anything, I whad just read that in another forum and wanted to get ideas from this group about anything I read. I certainly was and will never use the length of anything to determine the strength of anything or anyone. (built in joke there with much serious overtones!!) Hey you guys, please don’t crucify me, I am here to get some pretty savy car lovers opinions and the more people respond the more I will understand what the new cars are and are not doing and what the consumers are or not doing and if there are trends to failures and does GM and other service places need to educate or redesign or make sure sales forces say the right thing or make sure if enough people have this problem or understanding that we get reeducatd or redirected or maybe GM and other Manufacturers can learn from what many people are thinking or understanding. So please leave out the ciriticisms. Thanks
VDC Driver, the person stated,"car’s OLM was designed to take that worry out of the requirements (meaning all the hassle of oil change reminders)and use the “Easy Maintenance Plan” they boast to make life easier with the maintenance. " direct quote!
My point about telling the dealer or the regional office the entire story is that it affects what is said or done in regards to the problem. Withholding info or flat lying fits into the same category as running the engine out of oil; case closed.
As a shop foreman for several dealers I’ve been involved in more than a few things like this and in every single instance the customer never provided the full story. Never.
Example. Lady brings her 7k miles Subaru in for an oil change and refuses it because she “can get it done cheaper elsewhere”. Fine, have at it. She goes 2 blocks to a chain store where they fail to tighten the filter and she never made it home. Engine trashed.
It was towed to us with her under the impression warranty would pay for this. She then went ballistic and started cursing followed by calling SOA’s regional office.
The next day SOA called and told me they were considering a new engine for her and that WE were in trouble over this. What this lady did was conveniently left out the fact that the chain store botched the oil change and that the chain store’s oil filter was in the back floorboard wrapped in plastic. SOA told her to take a hike.
Been through this countless times and I do wonder exactly what the dealer has been told up to this point.
One guy actually retained a lawyer and was going to sue us over a 25k miles Subaru that suffered an engine failure due to never having the oil changed; not one time. The basis for this suit was that we were at fault because “no one there told me I had to change the oil”.
The guy even lied to his own lawyer who proceeded to drop him like a hot potato once told about those annoying little details.
In this case the OP is concerned with OLMs, oil life percentages, CELs flashing on and it’s a safe bet that red oil lamp was on but lost in the confusion. This is not a rare thing at all.
ok4450- I’m not stupid. I am honest.
Everyone is aware of all aspects. Everyone is aware of the oil changes and the OLM recording times of changes.
I’m not calling you stupid or even dishonest at all. Let me pose the question.
Have you even used one sentence to the dealer or corporate GM about your failure to inspect the oil level on a regular basis?
There is one thing I give you a pass on and that’s in relation to the OLM. These things are bunk and GM’s good intentions do not always translate to what’s best for the car. The OLM is only one of many things recommended that may not be so good for the life of the vehicle. GM is not the only one guilty of this and I note in the owners manual they do not use the term “severe service”. They’ve converted that phrase to something more warm and fuzzy. Thank the marketing dept.
Apparently we’re posting at the same time. So exactly what does “all aspects” mean?
The red oil lamp was never on in the entire mielage of the car. Never. All this is why we are having this conversation. If you have a question, ask it. Don’t assume or accuse. The CEL came on- I went to the info system, toggled doen to poil lie monitoring- said it was 7% and immediatley cahnged oil.
Now, ok4450, I understand what you say you have been through with customers. I am not them.
Okay, now. the only time the CEL came on and so called with your description “flash (ing)” was when in conjunction with a engine power reduced light at which time I pushed ONStar to do a diagnostic test as it appeared I was in the middle on being stranded.
So let’s go with the facts. But if you have questions, ask them.
?Customers don’t have to worry about deciding when it?s the best time to change their engine oil because our Oil Life System technology adapts to their driving conditions and habits, and determines the right interval," said Peter Lord, executive director, GM Service Operations. “Since the new maintenance schedule is based on oil change intervals determined by this technology, customers can save time and cost.”
I felt I was maintaining the car by using the OLM. Yes I have told them I have checked th eoil and people have topped it and other places have changed it and I was like clockwork regularly monitoring the system. I was checking the oil system when I knew I was going to have a long trip and getting the oil changed as monitoring device told me. So in my mind, that was a regular, concsious effort to do what I felt I had been advised to do. I compared it to the maintenance schedules of my other engines in recreational vehicles and felt I had all the vehicles in a wrok plan for maintenance. I am not going down that road that you want me to say because it was not part of my thinking when I felt I understood
the OLM. The manual does say many things. It was interpreted a little differently than you as a car enthusiast would or have experienced. I have had 8-10 cars and maybe luck or not but as stated earlier never had this problem and never have been on a every fuel fill check oil level basis. Not many people do. I felt I was taking care of the car through the
"simplified maintenance" as stated above and it had been drilled into my GM dad to make sure your car is never out of oil. I felt the OLM was telling me that.
I just want to be sure about this:
You were driving 3 hours from home, the Check Engine Light came on, you pushed the OnStar button, and while talking to them, the car shut off on you, and they then towed you to a dealer, which replaced the fuel injection system, and the oil and filter?
Then on your return trip back home, the Check Engine Light came on again, you pushed the button for OnStar, but this time the car allowed you to keep driving it all the way home to your preferred dealer?
Is that correct?
Can you ask the dealer if you can come in and take a picture of the “sludge” that they are concerned about in your engine, since it is apart?
I want to know if it actually is sludge, or just carbon build up in the combustion chamber.
I honestly don’t think its a sludge issue at all, but only pictures can prove that one way or another.
Also, if you truly want a sample of the oil change shop’s oil, just go to their shop, and tell them you want to buy a quart of their oil. Then hand that to your dealer.
BC.
After the additional info posted on 2/2 about changing the oil/filter as a warranty repair after the reduced power, CEL, etc. in the first episode, my feeling is that the extended oil change intervals led to sludging. In turn this can lead to oil consumption.
At some point failure to inspect the oil level regularly led to a situation where the oil level was low enough to create loss of power due to the engine trying to seize up.
An engine can suffer loss of power or even a full seizure due to lack of oil but will apparently run well when cooled off. When an engine reaches a point like this (loss of power or full seizure) it’s damaged goods and the oil change is an exercise in futility.
It would be interesting to know how much oil came out of the pan before this warranty oil change because trying to cure an engine problem by changing the oil and filter is a very common, and very misguided, thing to do.
I’ve seen engines with holes in the side of the block due to thrown connecting rods and the oil and filter was changed in an attempt to solve this kind of problem. As sad as it is, I’ve seen that example more than several times.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation.
I don’t believe there are sludge deposits in the engine.
I believe the deposits are Intake Valve deposits that are motis operandi for Direct Fuel Injection vehicles.
Because there is no fuel being sprayed on the intake valves due to the fuel injectors now being mounted in the combustion chamber, intake valves on just about every Direct Fuel Injected vehicle are building up deposits due to the PCV system providing oil mist into the intake track.
Anne, if you read this, please call your dealer, and ask them if the sludge deposits they are talking about are on the intake valves, or inside the engine block.
I’m willing to bet that we are now talking about DFI related intake valve deposits, and not actual engine sludge.
BC.
I’m reading this and everything I can. Yes, it is a shame we do not have the drained oil at the delearship to look at.But as soon as I write this I am calling the delearship that drained the oil after the stranded engine power reduced light and CEL came on to see if they remember how much oil was drained.
ok4450,
I just got off the phone with the delearship where I was stranded and asked if they kept the oil from the car. They said no but remember that there was plenty oil in it. I also remember when OnStar when I was being stranded I toggled through the info systemand saw that I had plenty of oil life. I think it said either 35% or 50%. But in any case they remember it had plenty oil.
Now what is more interesting all you guys is that I said. “I have been raked over the coals on cartalk that I should have had my head under the hood checking oil every fuel fillup and I was not monitoring the system that way.” “and you shouldn’t have to. That is what the OLM is for. And even though we put the 3,000 miles stickers on our customer’s cars too, we have people that come in and are just going to change at 3,000 no matter what. But there has been so many changes in oil and technology that you don’t need to be changing out oil like that. If you have your receipts and they should be about 5 or 6(And I said 4 but with the synthetic oils) and he said , “well as long as you were changing your oil based on the oil life monitoring system, you should be okay and it should be covered under the 100,000 warrany and power train warranty.” I told him I was following the OLM to change my oil, resetting the oil light by pressing the gass pedal three times and then going into the info system toggling down to make surethe OLM was reading the 100% again and off I went.” He assured me I was doing the right thing. So guys? If that is not coming from the horse’s mouth what is and that is also what my own deleasrship said.
So I still think it comes down to something at the oil lube place that does not sound right!!!
Okay, you keep going back to this.
Your car has no way at all to monitor oil level. The only way to tell is to pull the dipstick.
The OLM is just an advanced version of the sticker on the window saying to change the oil at xxxx miles on the odometer. Saying that the OLM said the oil was fine is just like looking at the sticker, seeing that your odometer reading is less than the sticker and concluding that your oil quality and level is fine.
Did you ask them if the “sludge” they are talking about is in the engine, or just on the valves?
BC.
BC- I told the dealership the entire engine is on the floor with tar looking 1/4 sludge everywhere through and through and the present dealership who has the engine says the entire engine needs replaced.
I walked out with the service manager and actually looked at the engine. He took his screwdrive tip and rolled off the sludge on the chain, the chain that goes around the engine (timing chain maybe) and the edges of the engine on the casement and then had all the sensors on the side laid out of paper towels also covered. We did not talk about the valves and this forum is the initiation of my learning about the possibility of valves as a separate issue. Are you saying I should ask the good samaritan dealership when I was stranded or ask that of the dealership that is possession of the engine now?
You keep saying oil level and I know that is important. The two dealerships keep saying use the oil life monitor to be my maintenance guide and even said I do not have to stick my head under the hood. You are saying olm does not monitor oil level but the two dlrs are saying if you are using the OLM you do not have to stick your head under the hood.
Nope, that bit of info is good enough for me.
BC.
Any alleged valve problem is a separate issue and is irrelevant actually.
At this point they apparently have the engine partially diassembled and have found sludge.
Pure and simple, and in the plainest of words, this is caused by not changing the oil often enough.
One thing you must do is totally rid your mind of the OLM and this percentage business. This does NOT tell you what the oil level is NOR does it monitor the oil condition. Heeding this thing is what has put you where you’re at right now.
If you note the owners manual page 6-2 it states that your car may need (they ALL do) more maintenance than specified based on operating conditions, etc. There’s the out.
Owners manuals pretty much gloss over things and a good example would be timing belts. When a salesman is touting this and that to a potential car buyer do you think that salesman is going to open the manual and state, “Oh by the way, in 90k miles you are going to be spending xxx or xxxx dollars to replace the timing belt”. Not for a second.
If you want a good example of automotive marketing (a.k.a. BS) watch the episode of BBC Top Gear where the guys had to make their own TV commercial about a diesel Scirocco. The car is an anemic garden slug and the marketing boys continually put a positive spin on the problem.
The owners manual states to check oil level every fuel up, it’s for liability reasons,
GM won’t pay if you run out of oil.
As far as why your sludged could be low quality oil, I would stay clear of quick oil change places.