At this point I’m of the opinion that GM should step up and Good Will this one. Granted, the OP has not been checking the oil level, relying on the OLM, heeding info from a fast lube about intervals, etc. but the owners manual implies that the OLM should be the end-all on this issue while quietly playing down what is referred to as severe service.
Even in the manual GM does not use that 2-word phrase and leaves the definition as murky. What is more than normal? 5k miles? 7K miles?
Given the fact the dealer and OP state the oil level was fine previously (and I’m taking both at their word with no problem) I’d say the problem was related to reliance on the OLM and if GM wants to stress this hokey gadget then let them pay for the failings that it causes; and you can bet this will not be an isolated incident.
The service manager should go to bat for the OP about a GW warranty.
The OLM in my Lincoln counts down to about 3500 miles but I never follow that one either. I rely on the odometer and change it every 3000-3500 anyway.
OP, rather than get distracted by these things I’d suggest a piece of masking tape to cover it up.
Anne, after reading all this discussion, this is my understanding of the situation:
You followed the OLM faithfully, and your dealer should be able to verify that history, which should be stored in the computer. And it sounds like your dealer is not arguing that you didn’t follow the OLM faithfully.
The dealer that drained the oil the FIRST time you had a problem told you that there was “plenty” of oil left in the crankcase when they drained it. They didn’t save the oil, unfortunately, so there’s no definitive answer to how much oil was in there. But, in their opinion, apparently, there was enough oil that they didn’t consider lack of oil to be the root cause of the problem. Also, you had the fluid levels checked periodically 4-5 times per year.
Although the Quick-Lube place led you to believe they ALWAYS put synthetic oil in your car, in two instances they charged you only thirty-something dollars, which is not consistent with the cost of synthetic oil. That’s consistent with regular, non-synthetic oil. In one case they charged you sixty-something dollars, which IS consistent with synthetic. So you have good reason to believe that, in fact, on two occasions they DID NOT use synthetic oil. Either that, or the person at the register made a mistake in how much they charged you.
The dealer now has your engine in pieces, with sludging in evidence everywhere.
My conclusion is that the responsibility for the engine failure is either with the Quick-Lube place for not using the right type of oil, or with Chevrolet. If I were the dealer, I’d suspect the Quick-Lube place of not using the correct oil. But I don’t know if the dealer will be able to prove it, even with analysis of the sludge.
I believe GM should give you a new engine, and try to take something out of Quick-Lube’s hide if they can.
Thank you all for responding. How much is the bill? I have had a semester’s worth of automobile maintenance 101 and car manufacturers manuals and advertising 101. I think the moral of this story is to find a good dealership or mechanic you can trust to do all your car maintenance and get on board with a schedule that is sutomized to your car, your driving habits and check behind them. Than you all for your time and efforts to figuring this out but I too think JESMED has wrapped it up nicely.
?Customers don’t have to worry about deciding when it?s the best time to change their engine oil because our Oil Life System technology adapts to their driving conditions and habits, and determines the right interval," said Peter Lord, executive director, GM Service Operations. “Since the new maintenance schedule is based on oil change intervals determined by this technology, customers can save time and cost.”
The two dealers are wrong. Even your owner’s manual says that you have to check the oil level now and then. It’s important when your change interval is 5K miles, but it’s absolutely critical when the change interval is 10K and more.
Estimated (the monitor is estimated) oil life is just that. And the estimate assumes that you put the right oil in and that the level is correct and maintained.
I do agree that there should also be an oil level monitor, but unfortunately your car, like most, doesn’t have one.
The moral to this story is to change the oil every 3-5000 miles and ck the dipstick.
An oil change is the cheapest insurance you have for your motor.Why not do it? Cost? Time lost? The principle of it? relying on a marketing gizmo is not the way to go. Most dealership work these days is warranty work.Most fo these technological devices fail.
A simple dipstick check and frequent oil changes are time proven methods of vehicle longetivity.
Whatever the reason you can come up with, you are still the one who paid for this problem . GM will blame you and the quick lube shop.All fingers point at you.
oldwrench, I know many of you are good ole boys and experienced. All the main manufatures of oil that I hae contacted in the alst few days have said the the government is putting pressure on all oil companies to make oils that will last longer in the operation of the aars without as many oil changes because of the environmental issues. So the 3,000 miles is a myth now. I hear many of you and I know many people myself who are religious about this. and I read some of you are of the opinion that it sure does not hurt and would certainly have been a much less expensive larternative to a new engine vs the $35+ cost of an oil change. Okay. But the reality is the government is pushing for less oil changes
and demanding the oil companies consider the mnfg of their oils to have longer oil change intervals even up to 10,000 is still within the parameters of what the OLMs are designed to do. Just keep that in mind with all the 105 or so comments. By the time this is resolved, I will be giving my own advice to people who have car problems.
So we are still going strong on this. We are thinking the Citgo 5W30 Safeguard which has now been determined to be classified as one of their synthtic blends. Just trust on that. The homepage says that under their products, the Citgo techical department states that. Okay that is a fact. Now I pulled the MSDS sheets from Citgo and then went to the PQIA which has rated 6 top companies for consumer oils and plugged Citgo into that (they were not on the list by the way) and saw some interesting differences in the viscosity of thier oil. And aside from those figures,we have samples of the oil from my engine and are proceeding with analysis. OnStar is assisting in the documentation of diagnostics.
Interesting that all these people on wesites say you can go back into the computer of cars and find ut the OLM reset stage. Well, it appears you cannot. It also appears that ONStar can only give you a verbal of the status which we haveon the last 5 connections and are getting the codes for the car failure. Also for free with an OnStar subscription, you can hae a diagnostics of your car sent to you each month IN WRITING. But you have to sign up for that. Okay guys, that is where we are until Monday.
I still plan to use the OLM and will use the OnStar monthly diagnostic free report sent to my house and make sure when the OLM is at 50% when I start making arrangement to take the car into MY DEALERSHIP for oil changes. There oil changes are not much more andif I decide not to use the synthetics but the DEOX then the $35 oil changes are still less than the $63 ones. The dealership is just a ways from me. So I will take a book or work stuff.
The 3k miles oil change is not a myth, As a matter of fact, there are some very severe cases in which the oil may need to be changed every 2k miles or 2/3 months, whichever comes first.
I’m in agreement with you that the Feds are behind a lot of this stuff. We’ve also seen how well the Feds work in every other area; such as the Medicare scam story today with 60 billion in fraud and 2 guys who bilked 119 million before baling out for Cuba.
About a month ago I posted a couple of pics about an engine that sees little use and was sludged up. Here’s one of the pics I took.
That engine is almost new (mileage wise) but has been driven little. The oil/filter was changed about a 1000 miles back if I remember correctly.
ok4450, I am not sure what the white stuff was in the sink (I think it was a sink) That looked scary. But mine is so bad there really is not sludge like icing on a cake but more like burnt tar you see at times on road when it is really hot outside.
That part you saw in the pic I provided is not a sink. That is the oil pan that I removed from this engine and that pan was thoroughly cleaned (as in vatted out at the machine shop) just a few thousand miles before that pic was taken.
That white/gray stuff you see is the early stages of moisture induced sludging. If allowed to continue, it will eventually start turning darker in color.
The engine in that pic is seldom operated and when it is the engine only sees a few miles here, a few there, etc. This is the worst type of driving an engine can go through.
Taking them on the highway regulary does mitigate this to some extent.
The point being is that you can see just how quicky driving habits and enviro conditions can generate this kind of goop.
It is amazing with the comments how most people do not maintain their cars like all you guys are saying and that the vehicles are on still driving on the road at all. Like I said, firt thing is not to use the quick places that are not caring about the vehicles just running them through as “fast” as they can and then getting on a regular schedule with a reputable company along with readin ghte OLM. I do not think GM is realistic with the OLM simplicity so to have all these other checks and balances is more reasonable. I think there will be more failures using the OLM as the primarly method for changing the oil even though they say that is why they designed it to make it that much easier. I am not convinced that it is. I think the 50% rule is more like it. It seems to make the OLM
superfulous.
Do you really think if the OLM didn’t work, GM would like footing the bill for all the sludged engines.
I had free maintenance for a year with Pontiac. You would be surprised how many owners have the dealer do there oil changes.
The GM OLM has been in use since the 1980s and refined every year since then. The beauty of it is that the owner does not have to differentiate between regular and severe service. The computer is already monitoring the operating conditions that relate to severity of service and adjusting the oil life derating factor based on it.
The OLM has a huge safety factor built in as well. When it says 0% left, it is actually >20%.
There are vast amounts of test data and oil analysis performed to back up their algorithms and the implementation of the system. It works.
It’s designed to accomodate regular old oil. Regardless, one of the system designers wrote some time back that it really doesn’t matter if you use synthetics in a motor not designed to need them. They get loaded up with particulates just as fast as conventional oil and require changing based on that alone.
The only issue is that it depends on certain factors it cannot monitor such as; leaking fuel injectors, oil level not maintained properly and so on. So the owner bears some responsibility for maintaining the vehicle and recognizing situations that could affect the oil quality outside the bounds of normal use.
How the OP can make the leap from oil life monitoring to never having to lift the hood between indications from the system is astounding to me.
Yeah, frankly I don't think you did anything wrong by following the OLM. I think the fuel injection system fault may have diluted your oil and caused all the sludgey goodness you have in there now, hopefully GM will take care of you. Changing the oil at 3000 miles or so certainly can't hurt, but I think the OLM systems are reliable. It's true, the system cannot measure actual oil condition, but the computer knows actual engine operating conditions; it knows the number of engine revolutions, it knows engine temperature (so it can "penalize" the oil life for high engine temps that may "cook" the oil, and low engine temps that will promote moisture buildup and acidity). It penalizes engine starts and high engine load as well. It will in fact recommend 3000 mile intervals or less under harsh conditions.
