I believe the problem is on both sides of the fence.
OP’s need to give accurate info that is not inflated with meaningless info, be able to type words that actually form words ( an occasional error is normal but some posters cannot spell simple words that make sense). They need to take the time to read an owners manual even if it bigger than a magazine.
On the flip side, response posters need to stop being hyper crytical if they find one tiny error in the OP dialog. Also if something does not make sense even if the OP tried to explain again just go on and get past it. It’s okay to be leary of some facts but if it does not make a difference in the big picture then it’s really ok.
There are also some on here that insist on others believing their opinion regardless of facts or opposing opinions.
Chest thumping and pontificating impresses 1 person only.
Well, no, if I understand what you are saying. I wasn’t personally complaining about posters not following up. Rather, I was noting that this is a common complaint amongst regulars here. Yet, if we expect them to follow up as we wish, we should make the utmost effort to treat them civilly.
Believe me cigroller, I understand beating your head against the wall, even if I’m not a mechanic. Try teaching a semester of basic English composition at a community college sometime, if you want to feel frustration. Like you, I can see both sides of the coin. I’m just trying to promote patience.
Thanks for bringing up these issues, Scrabbler. While enjoying following posts here and adding my 2 cents worth on occasion I do find myself sometimes curious, sometimes annoyed and sometimes flabbergasted. It may be somewhat apparent that I tend to be a “cut to the chase” poster and often my opinion is based on my reading between the lines. And my occasional sarcastic barbs are aimed at those whose posts seem to beg for heat. Problems that are well stated and avoid useless chatter get my closest attention but if well written and entertaining I do enjoy the posts that meander.
As for owners manual, they are a pain in the rear. Pick one up and time yourself on finding the location of the radio fuse.
Spelling is the last thing on someones mind when they are wondering how they will get to work tomorrow.
Relationship advice? If they ask for it explicitly or implicitly I feel free to throw my views in.
Skepticism may be the second best reply to some posts, after silence.
Sometimes we have to play “20 Questions” with the OP to try to get enough information to make a stab at the OP’s problem. Many of the OP aren’t mechanically inclined and it is up to us to help them along.
I learn from being asked questions. When I was a teenager, I would take my parents’ Dodge to a DeSoto/Plymouth dealer where my Dad traded if I couldn’t find the problem. The service manager was a crusty old guy. When I would bring the car in and describe the symptoms, his response was always “What do you think is wrong with the car?” When I would offer a guess, he would say, “No, boy. Use your head”. For example, one time the car was puffing black smoke and not running right. I told him I thought it was the carburetor. He responded, “Incomplete combustion could be caused by something else as well. Try again”. Sometimes he would tell me not to waste his time and my Dad’s money and tell me what to fix. When it was a problem that he didn’t see right away and I left the car, when I came back to pick it up, he would quiz me about what the problem might have been and lead me to the answer. He would often say, “I’m going to make a mechanic out of you yet”.
I sometimes feel like using this old service manager’s technique on OP’s. However, I realize that most of them aren’t really curious about the problem–they just want it solved. I do wish that people with questions would post back more often to let us know if we were able to help them.
generally those who post querries here have listened to Tom and Ray. That radio show is the hook that gets them in here. And Tom and Ray are a couple of jokers. so if the OP cant take a joke, or have a little levity added to the answer to their question, then what the heck, ya know? To ask about a hubby or a college kid in a humerous way is totally acceptable here. Calling names is not, of course, but it doesnt hurt to lighten up a little, and not take ourselves too seriously, unless one is a lawyer out to start a legal battle of course.
Your first two sentences in your first paragraph were perfect all by themselves. The rest is sort of a violation of item (4), don’t you think?
Seriously, I just read a post by an OP wherein his ball joint was falling apart, his lug nuts were different sizes, and he was asking what emergency equipment he needed to carry. I would have been remiss in my obligation as a human being to try to mitigate dangerous situations when I see them if I did not suggest that he needed to get that car up on a rack and get it made made safe.
Occasionally we’ll get a post from a young person saying “my dad says I should turn off the radio before shutting the engine off. Should I?” or some similar statement. The technical answer is “no”, but the correct answer is “yes…because it’s his car and those are his rules. While the car won’t benefit from your turning the radion off first, you should so it anyway”.
The only hard and fast rule I try to follow is to realize that the posters are often not car people and to try to give them the best advice I can, always respectfully. They’re people reaching out for help. I do the best I can to offer help.
I try to do the same with our technical debates. We often debate nitrogen vs air in tires, ethanol, the EPA, emissions testing, and countless other subjects. Many of these debates end up inconclusive, but the learning experience makes them worth the debating. We had one particularly good debate about what actually holds the car off the ground, the air or the tires. It turned out to be a more technically complicated problem than the OP had anticipated.
Ther should be only one rule: treat every OP and every poster with respect. They (we) all deserve that.
Having worked in an auto parts house I understand frustrations with people not giving enough or accurate information. It’s just as bad over the phone, believe me. (even with techs.!!) For many posters it’s probably their first time here and aren’t exactly sure of their way around yet. It’s easy to get a kind of “holier than thou” attitude, but a little patience can go a long ways. Heck, we might even get a problem solved while we’re at it!
Spend some time on most IT sites (espically if you are a “noob” or asking noob type questions) and you will see by comparison this site has patience with our “OP’s” that can only be duplicated by those being considered for sainthood. Really IT sites are very bad in regards to manners. It’s like, don’t dare post anything off by even a millimeter off or you will be savaged. Same thing goes if you try to get into a group that uses the same hardware/software that you do, no tolerance for the beginner or someone who may be smarter than you. We do so much better here by comparison.
This intolerance rears its head on other automotive forums also. CarTalk is by far the most “tame” or safe site I frequent.
Anyone pick up on the BBB news today? seems like the suspected “pay to play” situation is no longer in doubt. Bad manners in business, and from the BBB no less.
I’m pretty sure most new cars one can download the manual and have it on your computer. This is what I did with my Mazda, and using the search function in Adobe Acrobat I can usually find what I’m looking for rather quickly.
Mostly I think things ARE fine. Sometimes, however, they are not–in particular the thread referenced above by several people. And what I say has no force of law–I have no police powers. So, it’s a suggestion only. I’m just saying, if we want more OPs to hang around long enough to give us the end of the story, we might want to examine our own conduct.
Oldschool, I disagree. 1) If OP doesn’t know much about cars, how is she to know what is or is not relevant? I myself have included more information sometimes in my posts just to be sure the responders have all the info they need. And it’s a little inconsistent to on the one hand rail against OPs who don’t include enough information and on the other hand say why include irrelevant information. 2) So what if she opened the door? How does it help to question someone’s version of an accident when it makes no difference to your answer?
Thanks Mountainbike, I think your last sentence says it all. And certainly you’re right re the post you describe–but that describes a mechanical issue–the posts that raise my ire are ones where relationship/parenting advice is proffered that has little to do with mechanical/vehicular issues and only some connection to OP’s original question.
I think people get the answer they need and go on, hopefully we were right, If we were wrong we would get a sorry that did not work. I think thank you notes are nice when we get one, but expected as often as snow in July in Florida.
you already have oldschool. How much did you pay him off??
As we mechanics say"I didn’t build it ,buy it or break it".
My favorite commercial is old “gunney” as a psych who throws the tissue box at the client."Jack wagon…Cry baby!!! This is how I feel about OP’s that never crack open an owners manual.
