Gee…I wonder why we have so many environmental laws!!
The reason in my opinion is that regulatory agencies grow from a $100 million budget to a $500 million budget by enacting more and more regulations, and that growth means power and wealth for the cabinet member heading the agency. Exacerbating that is that too many politicians (the regulatory agencies work for the executive branch) love to pander to special interest groups. They see them as “voting blocks”.
In short, it’s’ about power and wealth. Everything that originates in DC is about power and wealth. :naughty:
So LESS regulation is the answer?
We have example after example in this forum of companies trying to bypass the regulations they have for clean air…and the answer is to give them LESS restrictions?
I think the main reason for the growth in regulations are the companies themselves. Regulations are set to stop a problem…and companies find ways around it…then more regulations are set to cover those loopholes…and companies fine ways around that too. It becomes a never ending play.
Companies are NOT trying to do the right thing…they are trying to make the highest profit. If it’s cheaper for them to get around a regulation…they will.
Here’s and example.
Law is passed that says “Companies can’t dump pollutants into lakes”.
Years later govt realizes that companies stop dumping into lakes…however they then started dumping into rivers (which feed the lakes).
New law passed saying “Companies can’t dump pollutants into Lakes or rivers.”
Years later companies are no longer dumping into lakes or rivers…HOWEVER…they built their own ponds on their property and that is weeping into rivers and then the lakes.
New Law is passed saying "Companies can’t dump pollutants into Lakes or Rivers or any man made ponds they build.
Companies then start dumping their toxic waste into they drums and leave them on site. After a few years they start to rust and leak.
New law is passed saying "Any toxins stored on site must be put in approved containers."
Govt looks at all the companies that are using drums and what they are storing and come up with a design for drums safe for all these chemicals being used.
Years later a new toxic compound is being used by some companies…and after being stored in approved containers for a few months it eats through container and dumps into water supply.
Govt now has to come up with new container design for this new compound.
This escalating of govt control had NOTHING to do with govt overreach…but EVERYTHING to do with companies NOT trying to do the right thing…and just make the highest profit they can.
One more thing…the above scenario is NOT hypothetical. I paraphrased it a little…but it actually happened with Allied Chemical and Onondaga lake in Syracuse NY. This back and forth with new regulations after new regulations went on for decades. Companies aren’t taking the responsibility themselves to be good citizens. They have to be forced to be.
Good summary, Mike. But it also points out the stupidity of the law writers, they should have covered rivers and lakes initially. And how about streams?
I agree it’s stupid on both parts…but toward the end there…it becomes almost impossible to pass new regulations until there’s a problem. Wouldn’t it be nice if companies worked differently.
CEO at company meeting - “We have this new compound that after a month we have to purge it.” How can we dispose of it safely so it doesn’t effect the environment." I want engineers to come up with a solution before we start using it.
2 weeks later…We found a metal that is 100% safe for storing the compound. We’ve contacted a company that makes containers to make containers with this new metal. They’ll be ready in a month. An we are working on a way to breakdown the compound to make it safe.
Gee…now wouldn’t that be nice. To be fair…I’m sure there are companies that work that way. Not sure where they are though…but I’m hoping they do exist.
In Minnesota testing is done on a regular basis of public water supplies. This is a state function not a federal function. The state also insures that proper liners are in place for the disposal of hazardous waste. The fact of the matter in Flint is that the lead pipes had been encrusted over the years and the caustic water from the river ate that away allowing the lead to leach into the water. At some point 100 year old waste and water supply lines need to be replaced and that is a function of local government, bankrupt or not. Even copper pipes before 1980 have been coated and prevents the leeching of lead from the joints but clean that coating off and you’ll have lead. That’s why lead solder is no longer used. True the managers made some terrible decisions but the managers would not have been there if the city was not bankrupt and under receivership, same as Detroit. So why were these cities bankrupt, in the first place to start the chain of events?
I love the ads proclaiming that New York is the state that works. The NY business climate is so bad that they have to offer free taxes to relocate there. That’s the start of the chain of events.
The fact of the matter in Flint is that the lead pipes had been encrusted over the years and the caustic water from the river ate that away allowing the lead to leach into the water.
And the fact of the matter is…Flint authorities KNEW the water wasn’t safe.
“Curt Guyette reported that a previous Snyder emergency manager had considered switching to the Flint River over the long-term in 2012 and rejected the idea after consulting with the state’s Department of Environmental Quality.”
Ignorance of the law is no excuse…“Except if you’re a cop”…“or Hillary Clinton.”
;-]
I love the ads proclaiming that New York is the state that works. The NY business climate is so bad that they have to offer free taxes to relocate there. That's the start of the chain of events.
It’s not so much it’s a bad business climate…it’s just very very corrupt.
Lets level out a little. I’m not saying the Governor has no fault but the start of it all was the appointed Detroit manager forcing them to find a new water source two years earlier than planned. The high prices I guess before that but I guess I don’t understand Michigan politics and why Flint didn’t have their own water source years ago when times were good. And before that the mismanagement of Detroit finances that caused the manager to be appointed in the first place. Then of course before that, the pulling out of the car industry that the cities relied on for funding.
I like to get right to the beginning of an issue and what caused the chain reaction in the first place rather than picking an event in the middle as the cause like not properly treating the water.
Like I said though, its an interesting study of many tentacles and errors made on all sides. In the provision of public services though, it is a primary responsibility of the government entity to ensure a positive budget. Once they screw up finances, lots of bad things can happen.
" love the ads proclaiming that New York is the state that works. The NY business climate is so bad that they have to offer free taxes to relocate there."
Bing seems to be unaware that this is the way that states operate nowadays–for better or for worse–“poaching” businesses from other states.
In NJ, where Chris Christie still collects his gubernatorial salary despite having been out of state for 72% of the preceding 12 months, there have been similar sweetheart deals that resulted from corporate blackmailing. (“If you don’t give us really big tax breaks, we will move out of state”)
Subaru of America is being gifted with a total of $118 million in tax breaks over the next 10 years in order to move their headquarters from Cherry Hill to Camden, NJ, which is a total move of about 10 miles. The “catch” is that they have to add extra jobs, so they have pledged to increase their office staff from 300 to 500 once the new building is in place. In reality, this would have happened anyway as a result of having the fastest increase in sales of any car maker over the past few years. They had threatened to move to a different state, but…Who knows if they would really have done that. All a company has to do is to threaten to move away, and the treasury is opened so that the company can loot it. In other words, a modern version of extortion carried out by corporations.
But to get back to that deal, if you can’t figure out that a mere 200 extra jobs produces a lot less tax revenue than $118 million, then I would suggest that you get yourself a new calculator. And, once that 10 year period is over, the company is free to move–or to try to extort more money in order to stay. All-in-all, a pretty sweet deal, IMHO.
A couple of years ago, Chris Crispy gave a similar amount of tax abatements to Panasonic in order to move their headquarters about 15 miles, from Secaucus to Newark. This followed the usual extortion-inspired script…If you don’t give us total tax relief for 10 years, we will move out of state.
In reality, NOBODY outside of the board rooms knows whether either of these companies (or Goya Foods, a BIG contributor to his campaigns that also received this type of corporate welfare) ever had serious plans of moving out of state, or whether they just saw an opportunity for a huge amount of corporate welfare.
Just last week, General Electric announced that they are moving their headquarters from CT to Boston, because…Guess what?..Massachusetts is going to shower them with corporate welfare. Obviously MA was able to out-bid CT in terms of corporate welfare.
So…you really didn’t know that this is how states now try to poach businesses from other states?
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/blog/real-estate/2014/12/subaru-picks-camden-for-new-hq.html
Yeah I know but New York is a special case, yes? In Minnesota the state unions kicked in loan money for Northwest to build a repair facility in Duluth and guaranteed so many jobs. Don’t remember the details. Of course then Delta takes over Northwest and the facility is closed-no deal but the money is still owed. On the good side though, Delta is discovering that Minnesota is a little more dependable for maintenance so some of the jobs are coming back.
“Yeah I know but New York is a special case, yes?”
NO, NY state is doing the exact same type of business poaching that every other state with which I am familiar is doing. That includes NY, NJ, CT, MA, & PA.
I don’t claim to be familiar with what is going on in Minnesota, just as you aren’t intimately familiar with what is going on in the aforementioned states. No, NY is not unique in any way.
I just see the TV ads all the time in Minnesota. “New York, Open for business”. Then the magazine adds go into the tax breaks.
Maryland is not participating in the business buying spree. This must be why MD has been termed anti-business. By Virginia, anyway.
" love the ads proclaiming that New York is the state that works. The NY business climate is so bad that they have to offer free taxes to relocate there."
Bing seems to be unaware that this is the way that states operate nowadays–for better or for worse–“poaching” businesses from other states.
@VDCdriver , I wish I could “agree” with you twice. 
That’s all it is is Corporate Welfare, pure and simple. When certain politicians mention welfare fraud they never mention that the biggest Welfare Queens in the country are highly profitable corporations. First it started with the Rick Perry come-move-your-business-to-Texas commercials, to be fair those didn’t continue very long, then New York stepped in and took it to a whole other level, 10 years of unlimited corporate WELFARE for any company willing to come set up shop in New York (or so the ads would lead you to believe).
So who pays for all this corporate welfare? The taxpayers. Essentially YOU are paying your employer for providing you a job. This country just gets more and more corrupt. . .
As far as the water thing, isn’t that hallmark of a 3rd world country? “Don’t drink the water.” I could go on about that too, but anyone here who is a George Carlin fan, and I know we have several, should go back and listen to some of his water material from as far back as the 1980’s ". . . nobody trusts the local water supply. . . . and that means that the whole system is just starting to break down, just starting to unravel. . . " He’d usually start the bit by taking a drink of water on stage and asking the audience, “The water here, I assume, is safe to drink.” And that would be met with boos and shout outs “Don’t Drink The Water” from the audience.
My own view, depressing as it is, is that the United States peaked around the time of the moon landings and we’ve been in a downward spiral ever since. I really wish it weren’t so.
"Then the magazine adds go into the tax breaks."
Do they also subtract magazines?
;-))
NO, NY state is doing the exact same type of business poaching that every other state with which I am familiar is doing. That includes NY, NJ, CT, MA, & PA.
Oh I don’t about that…
Some 10+ years ago the FBI did a sting and posed as Steel salesmen selling plows plows and other large steel items. They went to the county officials who were in charge of purchasing and offered bribes to all the county officials. Every single county official took the bribe…except ONE. And the reason he didn’t take it was because he wanted more money.
“Then the magazine adds go into the tax breaks.”
Do they also subtract magazines?
My humble apologies. Ad, add. There, their, they’re, too, to, two. Weather, whether, and more. Dope slap.
And yeah, you can find people that are less than honest, but in my experience 95%+ are squeaky clean-at least around here. Still, I can’t say more but there was a guy who had an iron lock on printing purchases. Sealed bids were taken but when his buddy would be in the office, the bids would be on his desk and he’d have to go to the men’s room. Naturally his buddy had the low bid. It took a long while but he ended up gone. I had a buyer once that a vendor wanted to take her to a Twins game. The tickets then were $1.75. I said that’s fine but you have to pay for the ticket and buy your own hot dog. The thing is the vendor was a sole source anyway but no one was going to say that we took even a hot dog from a vendor.
On the other hand, after I was no longer associated with the can plant, a friend in charge of printing several times would provide Cubs and White Sox tickets for when we were going to Chicago. They were provided by a printing blanket salesman to the plant as good will. We had nearly front row seats for both. When we had to buy our own, all we could get was standing room or upper deck. In private business this was acceptable but in government this would have been discharge or jail.
If God is paying attention ,a bunch of us are in serious trouble later on - Remember that verse " The beginning of wisdom ,is the fear of God " ? Seriously,if we have no higher power or an active conscience , then what kind of constraints do we operate under ?
I used to buy AC Delco auto parts ,made in Flint ,Michigan ,did they have any part in the pollution there ?