These things you say apply to any old car, whether it was made in 1975 or 2005. Once a car gets to be 20 or 30 years old, parts become more difficult to find and it becomes less likely that it will be kept in pristine condition. There are so many Civics on the road that there will be “recycled” parts for centuries for those who really want them.
It is kind of silly. We both agree that old cars are more fun and make more sense financially. In fact, we share the same preference if I am allowed to have an additional car for daily commuting. I just object to you preaching your preference as though it is somehow better than the rest. You value not having to replace your antique car. I value the reliability of new cars, which is a benefit whether or not you like to admit. It happens to be a benefit you don’t value, but that certainly doesn’t mean new technology isn’t better.
It’s my understanding that toyota is the best asian manufacture for parts support. I do know that benz will support just about any post-war parts, but it isn’t cheap if they don’t have it in stock. I agree that the simplest vehicles are likely to have the maximum longevity, but simple is a relative term these days.
In analyzing industrial equipment, we add the maintenance cost to the net depreciation costs and use that as the main deciding factor to consider replacing it. Assuming here that the energy consumption is the same for old and new.
Once you get rid of payments and depreciation, you can spend quite a bit on maintenance & repairs to keep the car going. Americans spend close to $1100 per year on car maintenance, repairs and tires, and still trade every 4-5 years. The repairs in the 4th or 5th year are maximum, except for a possible paint job, and good routine maintenance will will then allow another 10 years of low cost driving. Insurance will be lower too.
We drove a Chev Impala for over 300,000 miles for 20 years and the annual upkeep was level, except the body gradually deteriorated.
“Once a car gets to be 20 or 30 years old, parts become more difficult to find and it becomes less likely that it will be kept in pristine condition.”
Well, I can still buy every nut and bolt for my car from the dealer, and I can usually have it within a day. IMO, there’s no point in owning old cars unless you are going to preserve them.
However, I am glad they sell lots of new cars, it keeps them in business to support me. I just don’t want to have to drive their new ones, and I guess it still depends what you mean by “better technology.” For me; simpler = better.
“Once you get rid of payments and depreciation, you can spend quite a bit on maintenance & repairs to keep the car going. Americans spend close to $1100 per year on car maintenance, repairs and tires, and still trade every 4-5 years. The repairs in the 4th or 5th year are maximum, except for a possible paint job, and good routine maintenance will will then allow another 10 years of low cost driving. Insurance will be lower too.”
Exactly, most folks seem sell cars just about the time they have reached the lowest cost per mile. There does seem to be a point at about 250K miles where lots of work is required, once you get past that little hump they seem to get cheaper again. In my case, I spend about $.15 per mile for fuel and allow about $.15 per mile for everything else (about $6000 per year based on 40K miles) for my old car. That’s only $.30 per mile, cheaper than a new car.
Not “pretty soon”, but been-there-done-that. About 15 years ago, the Federal Highway Administration provided a demo for Congress on a stretch of Interstate not yet opened to traffic in San Diego. This demo consisted of cars, busses, trucks fully instrumented to operate on a multi-lane highway, passing other cars, entering and exiting lanes…ALL WITHOUT DRIVERS. Some of this technology has since been deployed to today’s cars. For example, automated route mapping, collision avoidance, GPS guidance. The technology is here now. The only things still keeping most of this technology in the labs is public acceptance and infrastructure cost.
Just tallied up the maintenance, repairs, and tire expenses for my wife’s 1994 Nissan, and for 115,000 miles so far, the cost is 7.74 cents/mile. That’s with first class maintenance using best quality parts, lubes and tires, and slightly “over-maintaining” the vehicle. The cost for doing the same thing to a 1988 Caprice for about 200,000 miles was 10.48 cents/mile, including a paint job. First class maintenance is not really that expensive, if it avoids breakdowns.
Those numbers sound about right to me, but if you want to keep the cars for the long term you want to factor in an additional allowance for “big ticket” items like engine and transmission rebuilds. That’s where I got my estimate of $.15/mile, it covers the “routine” stuff as well as the less frequent/more expensive big items.
What’s nice is you are past paying for depreciation, so it’s simply a matter of spending enough cash to keep it in good condition,
New cars are nice to drive but when it dies who do you call, the computer geeks? At least w/my 66 Impala I could pop the hood and find the problem without a computer.
Thank you for the information. I have never investigated eBay. I won’t let my wife know about the eBay antique section or she’ll probably post me there.
Your Buick’s straight 8 engine was more conducive to working from the side, than modern engines. A lift-off hood would be hard to engineer safely to pass crash tests safely. My 1997 Acura Integra’s shock absorbers are still working fine, very firm at more than 140,000 miles. No point in ever rebuilding. Yes hill holders are nice – Subaru and VW Passat offer them today. Rear heaters are common on minivans, and many cars at least have little plastic ducts that cheaply and effectively route warm air to beneath the front seats, for the rear passengers’ feet. Bolt-on panels negate unibody construction which is a huge help in stiff structure for handling and crash safety, with light weight. (You’re not going to brag about '48 Buick MPG are you??) Re Model A shifter, if you want a middle passenger you probably want an automatic. If you want a stick, you probably want 6 speeds, and you’re going to be shifting all the time for the pleasure of it. There – sorry about all that harping!! I would love to have an old Buick too, especially a convertible – what I miss most, is that great hooting sound that the Straight Eights made. (and maybe a little less, the clanging noise that those shocks made when they needed to be rebuilt) !
Funny - in Texas flashing your lights (or brights, as the case may be) means “cop up ahead on your side,” to which the appropriate response is an appreciative wave (if it’s daylight)… I never knew different numbers of flashes had different meanings!
Today the labor cost of rebuilding a shock/strut would be higher than buying one new.
Some cars do have a separate heater for the back. However most car’s don’t need it.
Body panels on today’s cars are part of the frame and bolts will not work. The design makes for less squeaks and stronger lighter construction.
Today’s cars will generally last 300,000 miles if given reasonable care and you don’t crash them.
I will take today’s cars for my daily driver. Those features you don’t see today (with the exception of under hood access) are those features that owners did not care that much about.
When all is said and done, I believe most of us no longer feel “connected” to our cars, since there are few things we can do other than change oil, wiper blades, etc.
Older cars needed a lot of attention, and the owner could do a lot of things; I have replaced water pumps, alternators, shocks, carburetors, fan motors, etc., and installed 8 trailer hitches and transmission coolers over the years.
Unless you are an up to date mechanic, or very mechanically inclined, there is not a whole lot you can do yourself on a modern car.
So, the nostalgia factor makes us think the old cars were better; I THINK NOT! I had a typical highly rated 60s car and the first 50,000 miles 12 things broke or had to be replaced or adjusted. This car had the Chrysler Factory Pre-Service, since I picked it up at the plant!
My son’s 2004 Mazda 3, on the other hand, just turned 50,000 miles and all he has had is some brake squeal, which the dealer fixed under warranty!
I grew up on a farm and learned to make cheese , butter, sausage, smoke meat, bake bread, and so on. But I like supermarkets and specialty delis!
Craig, the profit margin on spares might surprise you. I worked for an automotive manufacturer, and typically, parts were 12% of sales but 50% of the profits. This is true for most mechanical equipment, whether industrial or consumer products. If the product is reliable and has a long life, it makes sense for everyone. However, with equipment containing a high level of electronics supplied by third parties, there will be problems getting these at any price, unless the item had a high sales volume and a long production run.
So, the manufacturers love you, Craig, because you keep them on a steady and profitable course.
“So, the manufacturers love you, Craig, because you keep them on a steady and profitable course.”
That’s OK, I don’t mind paying for auto parts; as long as they are available I’m a happy camper. I try to avoid anything containing a “high level of electronics,” and when I do I understand it is disposable.
I agree with you Who. But still, considering the times, this was pretty high-tech stuff. About that Buick sound, were you aware that even though there appeared to be a muffler in the system, it was only a shell. There were no baffles built in. You could look straight through. That plus the 3-inch exhaust pipe really gave it that distinctive sound.
I brought up the Model A floor shift as a throw-back to when the guys would always seat the gals in the center of the seat. Then they would say "oops’ when their hand slipped off the shifter when going into high.
I never knew different numbers of flashes had different meanings!