Do you think the rate of failure with today’s computer/robot assembled vehicles is higher than it was when humans did that work?

What problems are you talking about? Cars are more reliable than ever, except for poorly designed infotainment systems.

Or are you talking about 2 parts: the GM ignition switch, and the airbags made by that Japanese manufacturer?

I heard that on some newer cars needing dash panel replacement you can get into a big nightmare scenario. What happens is, you buy the replacement dash panel for $800 parts cost, then install it for whatever the labor cost is, say another $700, $1500 total out of pocket, then you drive away, and think the warning light you notice will probably go off on its own. But it won’t. The computer will “allow” you to drive for 20 miles with this light on, then will shut the car off. Completely. And when you tow it back to the shop, they’ll tell you that the only way to fix it is to – get this – install another new dash panel. Another $1500!

Anybody else heard about this? I think it has something to do with the odometer. The warning light is saying you need to have an authorized repairman program the odometer to the right number, so it accurately represents the total miles on the car. I can see that, but why you’d need to buy another dash panel just for that, who knows; it’s like you say, problems with newer cars can be challenging.

Never heard of that. But I’d have it done by a dealer.

Considering the complexity of today’s cars and the environment and road conditions under which they operate it’s downright stunning to me that a car can travel a 100K trouble free miles.

At some point with self-driving cars, radar and camera activated braking, and so on there will be some fatal collisions and massive pileups. Once that happens the courts will be packed…

no, I m talking about all the people who post here and talk about their own problems and the averages of how many problems there are per car per brand. but you give some good examples too

and no, I don t think there are more problems than with human assembly, I m just saying that there will be problemswith the computer guidance and the robotics that control the cars, resulting in numerous incidents of the computer driving people into walls and such

and yes eventually a cap will or something will fall off a truck or an aluminium shed will blow onto a roadway and the collision avoidance will slam on someones brakes with a fuully loaded tractor trailer behind them and all hellwill brake loose. whereas if a human were in control he or she could choose to drive thru the obstacle to prevent a worse disaster

Final assembly is only one part of the entire build process. To build a quality vehicle…you first have to start with quality parts. Using the BEST and highest quality final assembly techniques with sub-standard parts will create a sub-standard vehicle.

And many problems are design problems. Have nothing to do with quality of manufacturing.

Toyota’s engine sludge problem from 1999 thru 2002…was a design problem. Nothing to do with assembly. GM’s ignition problem was a design problem.

and with all the problem with new software releases I would assume the same would be truefor self driving systems

and with all the problem with new software releases I would assume the same would be truefor self driving systems

Right now there is no software standard automotive manufacturers HAVE to follow. There are guidelines…but they are not REQUIRED to follow them…It’s just recommended.

You start manufacturing self driving cars…not only will the software be REQUIRED to follow strict guidelines…but I guarantee the Feds will also audit and do independent testing BEFORE the first self-driven vehicle goes into production.

Worrying that computers will do a poor job of driving is akin to worrying about computers causing people to make more mistakes at work. It won’t be worse, just different and probably safer. The anecdote above about humans steering through a tricky scenario where a computer might (and I do mean might) choose to unsafely stop with a tractor trailor bearing down on the vehicle is an example of ignoring the universe of everyday scenarios where the computer would do a MUCH better job of avoiding accidents since it is not busy texting, shaving, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, having obscene sexual acts performed on it, and it is most certainly not drunk or high. I know there are posters here who won’t buy a car with ABS brakes or other fancy safety technology but I have to say I have never felt safer then when I am in my 2014 Mazda 6 with all my fancy safety gear. I am a very good driver but I am not ashamed to let the computers do what they do best.

The problem with computers making intelligent choices…is that AI isn’t even close to the human brain yet. I’ll take a sober well attentive driver over a computer any day of the week.

The stuff we know instinctively … computers have to be programmed in.

There’s a great video about AI I saw some 20+ years ago where the computer controlled this set of robot arms. The scenario was to analyze these 6 stacked boxes…with the largest being on the bottom…and then the boxes went progressively smaller to the very small top box.

First the computer analyzed the boxes from every angle…as they were neatly stacked. Then someone scrambled the boxes all across the room. The computer/robot job was to stack the boxes in it’s original configuration.

The computer/robot-arms started with the smallest box…put it in it’s exact position (which was in the center of the room…and 4’ off the ground). Then released the box…needless to say the small box didn’t stay in that position. Gravity took over and the box landed on the floor. So it picked the box up again…and repeated…over and over until the engineers finally turned it off. We as humans wouldn’t even think about gravity…it’s almost instinctive. No way would even a 3yo start by try stacking the boxes this way.

“The problem with computers making intelligent choices…is that AI isn’t even close to the human brain yet. I’ll take a sober well attentive driver over a computer any day of the week.”

That’s 100% true @MikeInNH . Computers have come a long long way in the last 30 years but I still have a glitch from time to time in my new computer. It’s like it completely forgets my command from the time I type it until it gets it right. The simple fix is to simply reboot (restart) and all is well until the next time it happens. I would hate to be hurtling along at interstate speeds in a vehicle that was completely controlled by a computer. The thing forgets to make that all-important right turn and heads straight for a 100ft drop off. No time to reboot in that situation.

In the history of the space shuttle flights there were two failures, neither caused by computer. Both were hardware failures based on human errors in engineering and/or management. Not one space shuttle crashed or blew up due to computer failure. In the history of the Apollo missions there were two failures, neither attributable to computer failure. Neither Apollo nor the Space Shuttle would have been possible without computers.

My point is that computers can be powerful tools for humans if used, programmed, and tested correctly. I’m not saying that computers are ready to take over human tasks yet but we can’t be blinded by our belief that humans are so superior. I have seen more than my share of horrible drivers, people driving while distracted (mostly with cell phones), and people driving under the influence of various substances. In fact, there are precious few good, attentive drivers on the road. I am MUCH more worried about what humans will do behind the wheel than what a computer might do!!!

Long live SkyNet!!!

@bloody_knuckles, you make a good point. Computers don’t make errors, people do. Computers do exactly what we tell them to do.

Right now we kill more than 30000 people a year on our roads. Instead of sober, well attentive drivers we have drunks, druggies, texters, cell phone talkers, the mentally ill, the incompetent and even the blind. ( When Pennsylvania computerized and correlated all their state records they found out the were paying aid for the blind to more than 200 drivers who had renewed their licenses.) I think computer driven cars will drop the fatality rate significantly.

Ever notice the braille on drive-through ATM machines?

Actually, I’ve read that it’s to save money by making all ATM’s the same. However, it did take me aback the first time I saw it.

@bloody_knuckles, Computers do exactly what we tell them to do. That could go away if we keep advancing Artificial Intelligence. Please watch 2001 A Space Odyssey. Auto driving like auto pilot needs an off switch!

Saw an ad on TV for Subaru and their Collision Avoidance System. The thought that came to my mind was what happens if someone darts in front of you, hits the brakes, and the system automatically locks your brakes with not enough room to avoid creaming the miscreant who cut over.
That led to thoughts of the 100 people running nose to tail directly behind because a length for every 10 MPH is pretty much traffic fantasy.
The computer going to get the blame for causing a 100 car pileup and 22 dead…?

Now if they could only get that stinking logout problem fixed which has been surfacing for the last few days… :slight_smile: