I think there is a distinction between a independant mechanic who specializes in a particular make (many come from the dealer of the make they specialize in) and a mechanic who specializes in everything. Choose a independent who specializes in your car IMHO
I agree, I use an independent benz shop that is very good (and not cheap). They provide much better customer service than any dealer I’ve ever used, and I deal directly with the owner who is not reluctant to drag me out into the shop to show me what the issue is (I usually leave with greasy hands). They are currently in the process of replacing the engine in one of my old cars, something I would never trust the dealer to do correctly (most of the dealer techs seem to be younger than the car).
However, I would not go near a general repair shop with any real car (I do use a pretty good local one for my old POS jeep). These things require too much specialized knowledge to bring it to bubba’s shop. General shops are also not usually capable of sourcing decent parts for these cars, you really do not want them installing McParts store stuff on your car (like the idiot who installed a NAPA rebuilt alternator in my car when I was hung up one weekend; as expected, it lasted about 1000 miles).
Regarding consumer reports, I suspect there satisfaction data might have more to do with the expectations of the customers than the quality of the service (of course, I’ve never actually meet anyone who reads CR).
How do you find a mechanic who specializes in your brand? We have three different brands, by the way.
I have better things to do than experiment with independent mechanics until I find a good one. We’ll do what we can at home and use the dealer for the really difficult stuff.
I’m 50/50 on the dealer vs. independent repair shops.
I had a 91 Grand Am that needed a new water pump a few years ago. I took it to a shop in Olathe, KS that I’d used before and had good luck with. In the process of replacing the water pump, they broke a hose completely in half. (or maybe not a hose, but a tube-that goes from the water pump into the engine) and a $300 repair job turned into $650. I was totally PO’d…asked why I had to pay for that when they broke it!
I can understand paying for part of it, but why should I have had to pay for all of it. And what really ticked me off was that they told me this happened when I went in to pay for it. I asked them why they didn’t call me and let me know what had happened, that I would be a little less disgruntled about it. They didn’t have an answer for that. I ended up just paying for it and never went back to them again.
My car now, however…06 Altima…
I take it to the dealer for oil changes because I was told that not a lot of these oil change places carry a filter for this car in their stock…That it’s a different type filter, that they end up having to order from the dealer anyway. Same thing for the Sentra’s. Wondering if this is true…
Or can I go to a Jiffy-Lube/Walmart/Kwik Kar and get my oil changes for $10-$15 less?
Hey I worked at the dealer (GM BMW HONDA KIA) for many years and I am pro dealer (never had to pay a dealer bill as a reqular customer). But time spent to find a good mechanic is not wasted IMHO. Some people on the forum have suggested BBB,friends,and you could join a group that has common interest in a paticular car on the internet. Just some suggestions. Have spent my time at the chains and quicky lubes I say stay away from these,evev for simple stuff (I find this sentiment echoed on this forum)
I wouldn’t go to those places to get directions to a local dealership of the car I had.
The only real problem seems to be your continued use of the dealer you clearly don’t trust. Dealers are no better (or worse) than independent mechanics for almost anything you might need done on your car. They will almost always charge more per hour and often more for parts and supplies. They also tend to look at repairs a little different than the independent.
A dealer may well recommend work that strictly may not be needed, but could be connected to the problem or maybe replace a part when a little repair would fix it ALMOST as good a new.
There is no need to bring your car to the dealer for any service other than service that is going to be paid for by a recall or original warrantee. During the warranty period be sure to have all required (as listed in the owner's manual) maintenance done and to document all maintenance work.
I suggest that most people would be better off finding a good independent (Not working for a chain) mechanic.
Note: Never ever use a quick oil change place. They are fast cheap and very very bad.
How do you find a mechanic who specializes in your brand? We have three different brands, by the way.
Ask people who are fanatics about your brand(s). I spent a couple of hours at a local charity car show this afternoon, tons of very cool cars from various local clubs (ferrari, porsche, benz, jag, lotus, benz, vettes, audi, bmw, etc.). The place was full of folks who like nothing more than telling you about their cars, you just have to ask. If those folks can’t recommend a good shop, it doesn’t exist.
Along the same vein here, I’ll post a real life SAAB story.
Guy either tows or drags his SAAB into the dealership one evening and fills out an Early Bird ticket. (An EB ticket is a form/envelope placed outside for after hours use in which the customer fills in the symptoms and/or what they want done, the keys are placed in the envelope, and it is then dropped through a slot in the door.
This ticket stated that he “had determined the alternator was bad, wanted it replaced, and will pick up the car when he returns from a week long trip out of state with a friend”.
The car was stone dead, pushed into the shop, and placed on the battery charger. As the battery was charging I checked the price/avail. of a new alternator and went on with other things.
After an hour I get in the car, turn the key, and guess what? No red alt. warning lamp is on. A look at the alt. (buried deep) shows the field connector is unplugged and this means the alt. will not charge due to the lamp current not passing through it.
Obviously during an oil change this was knocked loose. (filter is right next to it)
So. Plugged it in, started it, the alt. worked fine, and an elec. system check showed no problems. Charged him .5 an hour and called it good.
Here’s the options.
Option A. Exactly what I did. (customer happy, but I also had a complete deviation from what this guy asked for, and signed, in writing.
Option B. Lie by telling him I fixed his existing alt., charge him 200 bucks, and make the paycheck fatter. (Nope, not an option.)
Option C. Push car in, replace the alternator, and push the non-running car back out to the lot with an approx. 600 dollar bill due against it. (SAAB alts. are not cheap.) This option would be exactly as requested on the form, and remember, the guy diagnosed his own problem.
So which is the correct option?
If this were YOUR car which option would you prefer?
Should I have taken this car and adhered strictly to what the owner asked for in writing?
Just bumping this back up in case anyone wants to take a stab at it.
">>No way should the service dept. rely on what they found on a handwritten note. Of course the service dept. is going to do the diagnosis and ignore the note.
Any service provider who believes that had better see an attorney for advice today. "
Race car drivers know a lot about cars. When they report a problem to the crew chief they often have an opinion about what caused the problem. Do you think that the crew chief just accepts the driver’s opinion, or does he and the rest of the staff analyze it themselves? I vote for the latter. When someone takes a car to a service shop, they should expect an evaluation of the problem and a fix. I have been right on diagnoses before when the dealer was not, yet I expected them to listen to my concerns and then decide what to do. They are suppose to be the experts. If they aren’t find a new mechanic.
In Hooksett and Concord NH they’re a new and used car dealership chain.
OK, we appreciate the variety of clients you have to deal with. Being a mechanic is a lot like being a family doctor; many patients read supermarket tabloids and try diagnose real or imagened ills. Of course you have to be professional and explain why this owner was lucky, since only a wire had been knocked loose.
My mechanic has a lot of non-technical customers, and encourages them to describe the symptoms & problems as accurately as possible, so as to speed up the diagnostic process.
In industrial settings, I am often asked to diagose a complex problem on the spot. I refuse to fall for this, except where the problem is very apparent, and I’ve seen this situation before. For complex, hard to explain problems, we use Root Cause Failure Analysis, which is a lot like detective work, and used by the FAA in all plane crashes.
So, I have a question: If they had just gone ahead and replaced the sensor as you suggested, and it didn’t fix the problem, who would you have been angry with? Would you have said “Gee I guess I was wrong and I just trew away $135 for a needless part and $x for labor”? Or would you have expected the mechanic to double check your diagnosis and find the real problem? BTW, did you say “I think the problem could be …”, or did you say “Put in a new CPS.”?
I don’t think they should have spent three hours diagnosing the problem. Heck, why not bill me for six hours, or ten? Where does it end?
I’ll add one more tidbit regarding the latest visit for the crankshaft position sensor, when the service consultant called me he said I also had a blocked catalytic converter which could be fixed for $1,200. I asked him to fix the current problem. I then took the car to a muffler specialist who did find an exhuast leak, welded it for $60, and said the cats were all fine. And further, if the cat (there are 4 on this car) was plugged the car would not run.
I now wonder if this particular dealer keeps high dollar parts with intermitant problems on hand to swap into cars being fixed to increase the service department’s income stream. Just too many things have gone on here. I compare this sense to the sense I have for the corner garage and it is completely different; those people I trust… they are not perfect but they are very good.
I will go on a quest to find a Mercedes independent to work on the harder problems. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.
I will go on a quest to find a Mercedes independent to work on the harder problems. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.
I don’t know where you live, but post here for good shop recommendations:
or check here for your area:
When it comes to electrics, fuel injection, etc. and while the customer may not like the amount of time involved in a problem that is certainly not the shop’s fault.
Sometimes a problem is very obvious, as in the case of the SAAB I mentioned, but many other times tracking down a problem can require days even. A guy brought me a Fiat one time that would not run (had it towed from 90 miles away of all things) and had spent about 1500 dollars at 3 different shops up to that point.
I spent 14 hours tracking down wiring problems, some inflicted by the previous shop(s) and charged the kid 5 hours just because I felt sorry for him. Yes, I lost my hiney on that one and never said a word to the kid about it. His car ran fine and he was as happy as a pea in a pod.
While not widely known, or probably even believed by many, I don’t know of a single mechanic who has not thrown in some free time to help someone out.
Some years back I felt sorry for a guy who lost an engine in a Chevy pickup (350). I located a used engine in a car that he could actually listen to and drive before buying it. He bought the engine, I installed it for free, the truck ran great, and he avoided me like the plague while telling everyone around “I screwed him over”. Go figure that one.
Anyone who follows my posts know that I don’t hesitate to tell someone if they’re being ripped off or if they’re the victim of incompetence by a shop.
In the case of the sensor and diagnostics there is no ripoff involved and any shop who would blindly plow ahead replacing things on the car owner’s suggestion should not be relied upon.
In the case of the A/C problem, vibration, and missing bolt it’s possible this was a blown diagnosis.
In the case of the SAAB I mentioned the owner was quite elated that I did ignore his diagnosis and authorized signature.
I also disagree to some extent with Consumer Reports and the dealer vs. independent shop business. There are some things that come into play here and it’s also comparing apples to oranges.
At the dealer level, the dealer is going to be seeing many new cars that people have invested heavily in; and often upside down.
There is a huge number of reasons why people will complain about a car and if one would take a job as a service writer for a couple of years then you would see what I mean. Some reasons, and believe me, I’ve heard them more than once:
- Complain about a car’s phantom problems for 6 months and then finally admit “Well, the car is really fine, but I can’t really afford it”.
- See No. 1 and add, “I’ll quit making payments so there…”
- Curse wildly when the owner discovers that warranty is not going to pay for dirty air filters, scheduled maintenance, etc. (See No. 2)
- Curse wildly when discovering that warranty will not pay for collision damage and blame everyone on earth except the person who caused it (See No. 2 and got to love the lady who slid her 2 week old Nissan on the ice into a ditch and wiped out the right front including suspension. She was livid on a non-warranty fix.
- Decide the seats, which were fine on a 2 mile test drive, are now unbearable after a few weeks and demands something be done, under warranty of course.
- Beat a new car to death at the drag strip, brag about doing so, and then go ballistic when lo and behold, warranty won’t fix it.
- Someone stole the stereo out of their new car, warranty won’t cover, so ergo, it’s the dealer’s fault.
This is the kind of stuff a dealer sees all of the time and the independent does not.
Hey ok4450 didnt see your post before I made mine about warranty denial or I would have made it here. What I seen that really got people heated was the rental car policy. Some people wanted the free rental car even if the repair would be completed on the same day the car was brought in. The policy for GM was if we had your car ready by 4.00PM the same day no free rental.Now come-backs and such got different treatment(left up to the service manager)
I took my car to the Dealer(I know, I should probably have gone somewhere else after reading these replies). The problem when I took it in the first time was that the back right window was not going up or down at all. The rest of the windows were operable by the drivers controls, or the individual controls at each window.
The dealer fixed the back right window so it goes up and down now, but only when the driver moves it. None of the other windows will go up and down by themselves either, only remotely controlled by the drivers controls. At the same time I had them fix the back window, they also replaced a part in the drivers side panel where all the controls are for the windows. I brought the car back for them to fix this, thinking they must have just not connected something, and they said that I have a broken part, that is now going to cost me $190.00. I told them it wasn’t broken when I brought it in to be fixed the first time, so why is it broken now? I am crazy or what? They did say I would not be charged the diagnostic fee. Any suggestions?