Intermitant Long Crank to Start Car

Not that I’d purposely do it but I guess my engine should run fine without a camshaft sensor once it finally started. Thanks.

And here I am driving my 15 year old (130,000 miles) Kia Rondo with a new camshaft sensor, new crankshaft sensor and used alternator in the hatchback as spares. I could have saved $20 by leaving out the camshaft sensor. :slightly_smiling_face:

P.S. another issue but, I also just replaced the 15 year old spare on this car and the 22 year old spare on my Truck after reading the online discussions here. :+1:

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My understanding with my 3800 was that if the cam sensor went, the engine would continue to run until shut off, then not start.

That may be true with some engines, but most behave like @Nevada_545 described.

Update and situation change:

  1. For ~2 years the A/C has been flaky as in it works perfect until the temps hit the mid 80’s+, then it will work randomly. Long story short, after cleaning/shimming the A/C clutch and some multimeter testing, I determined the PCM was simply not providing a ground to the relay to turn on the clutch. When the A/C wasn’t working, I manually provided the ground and the compressor kicked in. I never fixed the problem as it’s a second car that I mostly drive and I just lived with it. Edit for clarification: I installed a proper shim to get the clutch gap within specs

  2. I borrowed an Innova 3130 OBD scan tool and upon turning it on there were no stored codes. I started the engine, was thumbing thru the features, and a P0001 coded popped up.

  3. Now it gets confusing…

I went to Innova.com, searched P0001 specifically for Dodge and it came back “battery voltage high”

I have the service manual for the vehicle - there is no P0001 code listed and P1594 is “battery voltage too high”

I searched the internet and came away with P0001 meaning “potential malfunction with your vehicle’s fuel regulator control valve or its circuit system” and one of the possible causes being a “Problem with the PCM

Problem with the PCM? isn’t that interesting…could my PCM be flaky causing both the old A/C issue and now the long start issue and code P0001?

On a 20 year old Dodge anything is possible.

unless you wrote that wrong you probably should have taken out a shim and measured for the correct air gap for your vehicle. as the clutch wears the air gap gets wider and the magnets cannot grab as well. adding a shim will make the air gap bigger.

Unlikely, the A/C problem might be caused by a failing A/C pressure transducer. When the clutch fails to engage, wiggle the connector on the pressure sensor located on the high pressure line.

I don’t see that code applying for your vehicle. That might mean that the OBD scanner has connected w/the car’s computer properly. In other words, nothing is wrong. My early 90’s Corolla OBD I system displays a code that means everything is working correctly.

You could try the standard battery/alternator test: Before first start of the day the battery should measure about 12.6 volts; then immediately after starting the engine, 13.5 - 15.5 volts.

It’s possible a relay has failed. No AC expertise though.

Solution: Replace the combination fuel filter/pressure regulator on top of the fuel tank.

The intermittent long start problem finally became permanent and a pressure check on the fuel rail showed the pressure went to zero after the car shut off. Part is available on ebay for $10.

I did not have to remove the fuel tank. Run the gas level down close to empty to lighten the tank, Drive the car onto ramps, pull the fuel pump relay, try to start the car to ensure no pressure in the line.

Support the tank with a jack, loosen the front tank bolts as far as possible and remove the rear bolts. The tank will drop down just far enough to replace the part. Caution, gas will drip out as you disconnect stuff.

All of these parts were 20 years old (except plugs) so I replaced them all as a part of a super tuneup. The car now starts instantly and mpg has come up by 3mpg.

Spark plugs - looked ok at 30k miles - replaced with old stock OEM.
Cam position sensor - swollen and cracked
Crank position sensor - looked ok, but connector was oily/dirty.
Starter - worked, but loud and metal screechy sound at times. New starter sounds much better.
Spark plug wires - Ohm’d out ok, but had seen better days.

Cleaned throttle body sensors and mechanisms - it was all dirty - looks new now.

Problem solved, car starts and runs great!

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It’s nice of you to document the solution.

Did you have less than normal fuel pressure before fixing it? I wonder if that contributed to the 3 MPG increase.

Fuel pressure was 58psi while running, manual says 58 ± 5.

Service manual says the regulator “maintains some pressure” in the line with engine off; does not define “some pressure”. The line was 30 to 40 psi with engine off so I guess that’s “some pressure”.

When the key is turned, pump briefly comes on and pressure is instantly into the 50’s prior to start. So it looks like they hold ~35psi when off, bump the fuel pump at key on to hit 50’s, then run the pump at 58 when it starts. I can see this as a safety measure; keep pressure, but not full while the engine is off.

Very intermittent at first, worsened ever so slowly, then completely failed and problem was easy to find. I had zero pressure on the rail, key on went into the 30’s but dropped right back to zero the instant the pump stopped. I had to do a double key on to get the car started.

I think the 3mpg gain came from the super tune up. Intake area, mechs and sensors were very dirty. I pulled the idle air control mechanism, it was solid black, cleaned it, it was brushed brass.