Hyundai Won't Honor Their Warranty on Theta II Engine


#101

I’ve got more than one car :smiley:

Plus I work on all of my close family member’s cars . . . as is the case with most of us on this forum

Anyways, by sub pan, I mean the lower engine oil pan

My 2 daily drivers are a 1999 Benz C280 and a 2005 Camry V6. One week I drive the Benz, the next week I drive the Toyota

I happened to be working on the Benz today


#102

10-4. I’ve never heard the term “sub pan”. Was just curious if it was something different than the oil pan - like a lower pan to the oil pan or something. Then I was going to ask why the oil pan needs another pan below it. Yes, I should’ve just googled it! :grin:


#103

Sub pan = sump pan?


#104

Back to OP. Hyundai has a new recall campaign to reprogram the ECU on these cars so the knock sensor senses the engine failure and warns the driver. I did not really understand the detail but a lot of discussions on their forum going on.


#105

If the ECU is having to rely on a knock sensor to pick up the sound of rattling lifters and rods knocking then it’s too late anyway.

Bloody_knuckles has it right. Raise the hood and check fluid levels every couple of weeks and even more often is any fluid loss is suspected.

Most failed engines don’t commit suicide. They’re murdered. Some quickly; some a bit slower.


#106

My engine has 2 oil pans . . . the larger upper pan, and the smaller lower pan, which is the sub pan

nothing unusual . . . many engines are set up like this


#107

That has been mentioned and the original post gives a vague reference to the recall, “Limp home mode”.

The software update provides an enhancement that may/should via the knock sensor detect crankshaft bearing failure and flash the check engine light so the operator can stop the vehicle in time to avoid danger.

This is Hyundai’s effort to evade a very costly recall.


#110

car par website has a bunch of 2015 motors for $1k. why are they so rare in your state?


#111

Thanks for that info. I guess it is to avert liability in case your engine fails right when you are on train tracks.


#112

These engines aren’t failing because of a lack of oil. They’re failing because they are poorly designed and oil flow is blocked, causing them to overheat. Of course, the car doesn’t give an overheated engine warning, because that would make too much sense.


#113

Neither of my older vehicles has an audio or dash warning light for engine overheating. But it is sort of surprising you don’t have that on a 2015.


#114

This vehicle has a temperature gauge and there is an engine overheat alert warning message but these are for the cooling system. The cooling system temperature has nothing to do with the crankshaft bearing failure.


#115

I’m just trying to figure out in my mind what good a revised knock sensor would be. So now it goes off if it detects a bearing knock or over-heating caused by lack of oil. At that point as one famously said “what difference does it make?” The engine is already toast at that point. Unless of course you would stop, have it towed so they could tear the engine apart and put new bearings in. So whether you drive it a few more miles until it seizes or have it towed, the result is the same, so what’s the purpose?

Bottom line the engines are defective with lack of a proper lubrication scheme just like our 57 Ford. Except with our 57 Ford, you could squirt oil on the lifters. A little harder to squirt oil on the main bearings. Maybe they need to route oil tubes to the bearings or something like days of old.


#116

I’ve watched a YouTube video from the professional engine rebuilder in Russia, specifically on Huyndai’s 2.4L engine in question, and his observation was that at the point where he receives these in seized or knocking state, the bearings are usually shot and were rotating in their beds, making for extensive damage.
His assessment was that owner’s negligence (to check oil) is mostly not what brings these engines down, but oil starvation due to the narrow oil passages and alleged crankshaft manufacturing problem, where the manufacturing related contaminants were not properly removed from the oil passages, starting the self-destruction process right from the factory.
Any kind of sludge formation makes the process to snowball.
Supposedly, this problem was taken care of after certain year in production, but who knows what new things are to be discovered.


#117

I remember the additional oil lines for the Ford small Y-blocks. At least it worked.


#118

Hyndai initially blamed the manufacturing process, and therefore justified not recalling the 2015 models. A Hyundai engineer whistleblower came to the US to testify that it was the design of the engine that was the problem, and not the manufacturer. That engineer lost his job, until he had to be reinstated into his job.


#119

Bing,
I’m concerned that the sensor will put more liability on the customer instead of the automaker. This company is already refusing warranty repairs. Now they’ll be able to say (even to people that change their oil on a daily basis) that they drove too far in limp home mode.

It shouldn’t be called Limp Home Mode. It should be called Go Pick Up a New Engine mode!


#120

Well obviously. Any engine, however well-designed, is going to fail if owners neglect to check the oil and top off when necessary. Every reasonable person understands this.

The fact that THIS particular engine is failing more often–and at much lower mileage than other engines used in similar vehicles from other manufacturers can ONLY mean one thing: a design defect. Surely people who bought vehicles containing this engine are no more or less likely to check and maintain the oil than people who bought other similar models instead. That anyone would suggest such a thing is beyond absurd. It’s not as if we are comparing a vehicle designed to appeal to teenagers to a vehicle designed to appeal to mature adults.


#121

Talking to non gearhead types, I find the consensus is that you don’t have to check your oil if you get your oil changed on time.

This worked out OK for most people as long as the oil change interval was 3000 miles, but today’s 7000 to 10000 mile oil changes are creating engine failures for people who don’t check their oil.

Most manufacturers consider a car burning a quart of oil every 1200 miles normal and not in need of repair. My 2012 Toyota Camry manual says " burning one quart of oil in 700 is not excessive. Yes , that is 700, not a typo.

The OP claims it was poor desigh that it was poor design that killed his engine, but if he does not check his oil, he does not know.

After all, most Hyundai engines don’t fail. If it is a design flaw and a new engine is doomed to quickly fail, why would you want another one?


#122

No, that is not the only possibility. One, and a fairly common one at that, was already mentioned. See this happen fairly often in my own work. Supply chain shops around for best pricing all the time. This requires almost constant first article evaluations of new suppliers. Those first articles have meticulous attention when fabricated/built. Supplier passes FAI process and is approved. Materials flow rapidly switch to cost improved supplier. They ramp up fast and that’s when they fall on their face. Too many new people, less skilled operators, faster machine speeds, skipped process steps etc. Often, hidden issues checked in detailed FAI slip by Receiving Inspection AQL. Now you have thousands of fielded units with latent issues…

Not saying that happened here, just offering alternative reasons how this kind of issue can manifest itself.