Wrong. People can decline to work anytime they want to. Unless they are in a union, then they can’t unless the union tells them to.
Sure, except when they couldn’t make ends meet because the union made them go on strike (often for lengthy periods) wether they wanted to or not, and safe work, thats almost laughable.
Actually a Union worker can refuse to work just like anyone else. They will probably lose their job just like a non union employee.
The Union holds a vote that determines whether or not the workers go on strike. The workers decide.
Only a simple majority decide. And the minority is basically forced into submission or face the possible violence at the picket line. Some choice huh?
The pay was nice for the unskilled workers but below prevailing for skilled trades (union negotiated!). The 40 hour work week with time and half was legislated in 1938 by the FLSA, not negotiated by the local union. The safe work environment was covered by OHSA, not the union (they didn’t make Lordstown safe now did they?)
The union didn’t help my wife’s aunt when her company folded and the pension disappeared. The union didn’t help protect the GM and Delphi union workers’ pension, the federal government did.
The union contract did allow my toolmaker uncle to be at work 10 hour days Mon-Fri, 8 hours Saturday at time and a half and 8 Sunday at double time for 10 years while getting paid for 83 hours a week to read novels and play cards JUST so new production programs could not be forced into a UAW plant.
Thanks for reinforcing my point.
Since there are more jobs than workers, this is the exact wrong time to strengthen unions as the employee has all the negotiating power.
The American Federation of Labor got the ball rolling many years beforehand. Congress jmade it law. If it were not for unions the 100 work week from 1890 would still have been the standard in
“OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Act was passed in 1970 after years of struggle by unions and other citizens’ rights organizations.”
So get off it, no unions in 1960s=no OSHA in 1970
And the company wouldn’t have folded if the only other choice for workers was union labor. These companies outsource things and “fold” to help break unions up.
Thats sad you uncle had such a poor work ethic. Was the poor work ethic common in your family or was it just you uncle who was lazy?
Its called the old 1,2 punch. Workers have some power right now. If we get more workers unionized they will have protections when the tables shift in favor of the company.
Since you like to rip on unions since you are obviously a company man, what do you feel about teacher’s unions? Police and firefighters unions? Do you only dislike blue collar factory workers, or anyone represted by a labor union?
Hmm…sounds like a Democracy! Democracy bad. Very very bad.
This statement is absolutely false. I’ve been in the manufacturing business (on the labor end of things) for over 30 years. At one point in our history the unions strengthened our work force. But in the last few decades they have become a very less needed part of the economy and employee benefit. Are there times when unions are needed? Of course, but that’s very few and far between in today’s manufacturing age.
Are big corporations greedy and corrupt? Many times yes, but they will always be. With or without unions.
Nah, democracy good, governments, but for businesses yeah you’re right, bad. And very bad for the families that can’t survive because of the strikes.
I will concede that unions pushed forward workers protections into law.
I will state that the ideological concepts that created unskilled labor unions also eventually leads to corruption within those very same unions.
Skilled labor unions (trade unions) were created to keep people out and protect their monopoly on those skills.
This statement makes no sense whatsoever.
The automakers agreed to those pension benefits to their own detriment. They outsourced to get away from the agreements they themselves negotiated with the unions and bankrupted the company to rid themselves of their legacy costs. Managements’ fault, managements’ problems. Union concessions were too little, too late.
I am not going to flag you for that personal insult…this time. My uncle did nothing for 10 years because the union rules allowed him that. Union rules that helped to cripple the company. He didn’t make the rules, he just found the loophole along with a dozen other toolmakers in the prototype shop. I don’t judge him for that.
As for my personal work ethic, you know nothing of that so I’ll just leave that comment where it belongs; in the trash.
Yeah, I’ll rip on unions but I an NOT a company man. Never was.
Toyota made Corollas in California with UAW union labor in a GM joint venture and made money… so not the union’s fault. Honda made Accords in the US with non union labor later engineered by a US workforce; so not the engineer’s fault. GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy with union workers, US engineers and US management. So what conclusion would YOU draw as to who was at fault? The facts point to management.
So unions are needed to protect the teachers and firefighters from the very people who are sworn to uphold and protect us? Read that again. Makes no sense. These unions exist for political patronage. Or, in simpler language; We’ll contribute to your campaign so you will vote favorably on our pay increases.
And with that, I’m done.
The decline in Labor Unions was primarily due to their success. Labor Unions first came about due to safety. Manufacturing and mining were extremely dangerous and there was no protection for workers who got hurt nor was their any accountability for the actions of owners and managers.
In the business climate of the 19th century, the more a manager or owner exploited their workers, the more successful they became. Those with any empathy soon failed. The first goal of the unions was safety. The second was fair wages so the workers didn’t “owe my soul to the company store”. This was very common and amounted to a form of slavery. Job securinty and working conditions came later.
Two things resulted. First, companies that were not unionized began to treat their employees like real people, increasing safety and wages and all the other things that union worker got so that they could avoid being unionized or loosing their workforce to the unionized companies. The second was OSHA which took away the primary reason for the unions in the first place. So @Old-Days-Rick is correct when he stated that everyone benefits from the unions.
There seems to be a resurgence in unions recently. Some businesses forgot what happens when you mistreat your workforce. They allowed the a***ole supervisors and managers to get ahead of the better leaders who did not have to be *** to get good production.
There is an old saying that most companies that have a union deserve one. But there are still a lot of good companies out there where the workers actually do better by not having a union.
I was a supervisor most of my working life. I never worked at a union shop because every time I interviewed at one, I did not like the managers and they did not like their workers. They thought all their workers were lazy. Every non union plant I interviewed at respected their workforce and were always most concerned with a new supervisor that he/she might “upset the apple cart” by not treating the associates right.
One more thing. So many companies are requiring a lot of overtime from their workers now because over time is time and a half where the 40 hour work week, the job benefits cost about 75% of the hourly rate. It is cheaper to have 4 or 5 workers put in 8 to 10 hours overtime than to hire one new worker. This is becoming a burden to a lot of workers. Over time should be paid at double regular hourly rate to encourage more hiring and less mandatory overtime.
Speaking of monopoly’s why is that for years Parker Bros was the only one that could make and sell the monopoly game?
Copyrights.
Parker Brothers owned, and still owns the copyrights to the game. They license other companies to make the game.
Ironic, isn’t it? The game of Monopoly is itself a monopoly for Parker Brothers.
Have a nice day.
As my first and last word of the day. I don’t agree with under age kids working in plants, but that would have been a step up from weeding flowers and tomato’s.
Now how many have actually worked an assembly line and belonged to a union? They are not all the same.
I had a bad guy I tried to get rid of but the Union blocked me. Finally the Stewart came to me to make a deal and we got rid of him.
Italian. And I had 6 uncles who’s most of the kids worked at either New Process Gear or Fisher Body. One uncle had 11 kids who all worked at New Process Gear some point in their lives. And then there’s my oldest sister who’s husband and kids all worked there. It might take me a hour or 2 to count all of them that worked at either New Process Gear or Fisher Body. Syracuse was a Blue Collar city (and still is). But most of the manufacturing jobs are gone now.
I didn’t insult you, I questioned your uncles work ethic. Maybe thats all he could do, I don’t know the situation. Surely he had to do some work.
That is truly amazing that he got away with that for so long. I am a self starter, if i was in that situation I would have made fresh mop water and mopped the floor if Union rules allowed.
Right now I drive a dump truck, its not mine however I treat equipment like it belongs to me. Yesterday I was waiting to dump, now some guys will sit there and smoke and joke or play on their phones (like im doing right now) or even take a nap. While I was waiting I got the speed ball and cordless drill out and started polishing the wheels.
Others probably mock me or think Im an idiot (like they do on these forums). And when the company buys a new dump truck and it gets assigned to me people will probably get angry because they have been here longer. But i demonstrate to the company i take care of a 300k machine and I am a self starter.
Mike, how have they dealt with the loss of the good manufacturing jobs, have they stayed local or moved elsewhere? Im assuming its hard to find a comparable job pay and benefit wise after the plants shut.
If one of the drivers I supervised did that I would tell him to stop . Other drivers coming and going at a loading facility will not be expecting someone to be doing that so that is a dangerous idea. Also with this heat wave I would not want a driver to have a heat stroke just to show off .
I was waiting to dump not to get loaded…i get called on radio when its time to pull in there. I was parked safely and nowhere near any traffic.
It was 77 degrees yesterday, I guess im pretty stout since i didn’t get heat stroke.
Besides I am not in the evil union, and the jobsite I dumped at was not union, so there are no silly union safety rules or procedures.
I didn’t know that taking care of your equipment is called showing off these days.
Like I said, it all depends on the shop, the Union,workers and so on. You’ll find examples of all to support whatever case you want to make.
I never found factory work humiliating. I looked forward to my shift and loved the smell of the plant. At the end of shift I would look back in amazement at all we had produced and thanked the sales staff for finding a home for it.
Some years ago I read a book on how the teamsters got a foot hold in the St. Paul transportation business. Complete with attempted murder. I have no illusions and understand why the guy was cremated never to be found again, even though still looking for his body. It can be rough but not my experience and only once did a Union guy remind me of his permit to carry, but we got along.