Sderekh,
I suggest you do a search for “conservation of energy” or even take a couple of college level physics and thermodynamics courses. You’ll learn the fallacy of statements like “use the electricity your car already produces to produce hydrogen by electrolysis.” If you increase the load on the cars electrical system the alternator increases its load on the engine.
+1
Once you learn and understand the laws of thermodynamics, the idea that water can be turned back into hydrogen with less energy input than the amount that was released when the hydrogen originally was burned into water, becomes just as preposterous as the idea that you can find a route to work and back that is downhill in both directions.
Of all the responses I’ve gotten this one makes the most sense: The idea that the amount of energy needed to produce hydrogen by electroylsis would take too much energy. That any gains you might experience would be wiped out by the increase in power needed to power the electroylsis.
Now that (That any gains you might experience would be wiped out by the increase in power needed to power the electroylsis.) is an objective statement w/o insults, insinuation or name-calling.
-I’d still like to see someone do an experience and actually report whether or not they get an increase in fuel economy when introducing hydrogen produced by electroylsis. Based on what I’ve seen and read, nobody has. I looked at the Popular Mechanics site mentioned and the experiment they tried was water injection. NOT whether or not they get an increase in fuel economy when introducing hydrogen produced by electroylsis.
Why don’t you buy it (since eBay would NEVER allow something less than legit to be sold on their system - haha) and install it and report back with your results? We’re lazy too (and don’t want to risk damaging OUR engines).
sderekh. Nothing wrong in checking out stuff. Don’t see why some resort to cheap shots. Makes no sense. For improving performance and efficiency, changing the exhaust system to more free flowing exhaust, adding more efficient spark plugs (like Bosch Platinum +2), larger diameter ignition wires (7mm seems to be standard, go to 8.5mm), K&N or Fram Air Hog reusable air filters, which allow increased air flow promoting more efficient feul burning, using good quality gasolines from company stations as well as using the octane grade recommended by the manufacturer, running tires inflated to proper levels, lightening the vehicle by dumping unnecesary loads from the trunk, these are some of the things a regular guy can do to help the performance and improve the gas milage of a vehicle. My feeling is if these hydrogen or water injection systems were so good they would be sold in stores like Wal-Mart or K-Mart or AutoZone where if the product didn’t perform as advertised it could be returned for a full refund. Safer to buy that way.
sderekh. Nothing wrong in checking out stuff. Don’t see why some resort to cheap shots. Makes no sense.
Thank you! All I’m asking for is a rational discussion w/o the cheap shots.
-Of all the responses I’ve gotten this one makes the most sense: The idea that the amount of energy needed to produce hydrogen by electroylsis would take too much energy. That any gains you might experience would be wiped out by the increase in power needed to power the electroylsis.
Now that (That any gains you might experience would be wiped out by the increase in power needed to power the electroylsis.) is an objective statement w/o insults, insinuation or name-calling.
-I’d still like to see someone do an experience and actually report whether or not they get an increase in fuel economy when introducing hydrogen produced by electroylsis. Based on what I’ve seen and read, nobody has. I looked at the Popular Mechanics site mentioned and the experiment they tried was water injection. NOT whether or not they get an increase in fuel economy when introducing hydrogen produced by electroylsis.
sderekh, I think you and galaxybeing are the same person. Promoting scams and multiple copy and paste identical posts. I’ll copy and paste mine:
Why don’t you buy it (since eBay would NEVER allow something less than legit to be sold on their system - haha) and install it and report back with your results? We’re lazy too (and don’t want to risk damaging OUR engines).
Which of these 290,000 is the best at refuting the idea that you can improve your fuel effiency by producing hydrogen by electrolysis and then introduce that hydrogen into your intake manifold?
I think you’re exactly right, galaxybeing. Thank you for that thoughtful resonse!
derek:
just because you DON’T like the answers given, you continually pestering for an answer you like is not going to change the answer.
the real answer you are looking for (as was posted by several responders earlier) was actually in the link you posted yesterday.
the information from (apparantly) a college research team stated that in theory and under laboratory conditions this DOES work. BUT it is too unwieldy and cumbersome to be of practical value/use.
although i paraphrased it, this came from the link YOU posted. why don’t you get off your arse and READ for yourself?!
stop with the inane posts, reposts and questions about this subject, or go somewhere that others are interested in this crap.
Read what the providers of the bogus device tested by Popular Mechanics have to say. It’s more than water injection and stuffed with more crap than a Thanksgiving turkey. Sounds like a hydrogen gas promotion to me as per the last few lines.
It produces hydrogen-rich bubbles before being introduced into the engine draft. After this it becomes an even more highly enriched hydrogen as it collides with hot metals and combustion and it drops the engine combustion temperature down. Now the engine timing can be advanced up to 7 degrees over factory specifications, if so desired.
AquaTune is a highly precise injection system consisting of air injection, water injection and an ultra-sonic barometric pressure chamber giving off ultra-sonic frequencies which in turn are splitting the hydrogen from the oxygen creating hydrogen-rich bubbles and hydrogen gases. This in turn gives a promise of 25% better fuel mileage and up to 30% more horse power
Hxxx, even this makes more sense.
But the original question was about producing hydrogen by electroylsis and introducing this hydrogen into the intake manifold to increase fuel effiency… The AquaTune product is only a water injection product. No electricity is involved, no electroylsis is involved. This is a quote from the PM article
WATER INJECTION
This technology was developed during World War II to provide emergency sprint power for turbosupercharged fighter planes. At altitude, there is less air for cooling engines. The turbos, however, cram air into the inlet at manifold pressures nearly the same as those at sea level. The compressed intake air, heated as it goes through the turbos, makes the engine even hotter. Spraying water, or a water-alcohol mixture, directly into the intake lowers the combustion-chamber temperatures. This permits substantially more power for brief periods. Several manufacturers have attempted to apply this technology to automotive use. We ordered an AquaTune from a classified ad in the back pages of PM. "AquaTune is like no other water injection system
.
So, as you can see even PM calls it a water injection product. No mention is made of electroylsis or hydrogen gas being introduced into the manifold to increase fuel effiency.
I have read it. I want other people to read it (that’s why I posted it). here it is again: “http://mb-soft.com/public2/hydrogen.html” I don’t understand your complaint.
I’d like to thank the ones of you who are taking this all seriously! Thank you for providing useful information! I’d still love to hear from anyone who knows of an experiment done to prove whether or not you would get an increase in fuel efficieny when producing hydrogen by electroylsis. If anyone can point me in the direction of that website, I would be grateful.
Another rational objective argument: How much hyrdogen is produced every hour? Every day? Would there be enough hyrdogen introduced to make a difference? I suspect the amount of hydrogen produced would be very small
I challenge anyone to show me a test where they install a system designed to produce hyrdrogen by electroylsis and then supply that hydrogen to the intake manifold to see if it improves fuel effiency. My research has lead me to believe such a test hasn’t been done. If it had, someone would have mentioned it by now.
You’re welcome, sderekh. BTW, my understanding of a forum is for open discussion of multiple topics. It’s good to investigate and bad when someone makes a judgment about something when all they have is their opinion to back them up. I would not say a product is good or bad, only report what I know from my experience and let others make their own judgment. That is the reasonable adult way to be. Some folks can’t wait to show how small-minded and negative they can be and take a perverted pride in acting foolishly. Isn’t it amazing all the venom these negative folks have?
No, maybe you should go elsewhere if you do not like the posts of the core group of people that are on this site.
Please stop flooding the forum with the same 3 cut and past responses.
What research? The same 3 cut and paste responses you give to all posts? Buy one and try it and get back to us.
This discussion seems to have been carried on on behalf of me. I personnaly started investigating the idea of a hydrogen generator and called my personal friend sderekh to explore its possiblities. I came to look at the discussion and I must say that much of the discussion seems to be emotionally based rather than objective or experience based. There are some good points made but the best observation I see is that I have a true friend in sderekh who is willing to endure the harrassment in search of hard evidence. In the end I may conclude that it is not a good fuel saving option but just hearing anonymous oppinions doesn’t really help make a good decision. If you can share the science to support or debunk it, great, or if you can share your experience having used it great. Everything else is little more than an oppinion based on who knows what. For many long years it was thought that man could not fly and many reasons (oppinions) were given to justify it. Many who tried to prove it could be done were considered “fools” as they failed in their efforts to prove otherwise. Still some refused to disbelieve in the possibility and eventually now we all know that only a fool would believe man cannot fly. I don’t know where Hydrogen Generators will end up in the long run…just be careful who you lable a fool.