Being driven to violent anger by something is not exactly the same as liking it. (other drivers being an inherent part of driving)
If your “single traffic incident” involves the death of a loved one and/or the maiming of yourself, it does often influence people’s feeling about driving; people can be affected for years/forever by such a thing.
Don’t be amazed if coal burning locomotives return one day but cleaned up if oil prices go high enough. The size of the power delivery infrastructure to electrify a train from Chicago to LA, for example would make it a consideration. Either the coal will be burned in more than one power plant to make electricity to power an electric train that would need an expensive overhead power line along the entire distance or else burn the coal directly in the train locomotive. Alternately a small nuclear reactor could power a train. Then “Trains Cause Cancer” would be someone’s Nom de Guerre.
Diesel locomotive exhaust is no petunia either and is carcinogenic.
Europe is a relatively small place with higher population density than the US with shorter train lines and so many are electrified. For us, Amsterdam to Munich, a long distance there was about 500 miles. Here, that would get you across Iowa in the middle plus part of Nebraska.
By far, the most expensive part of running a railroad is building and maintaining the right of way. Modern heavy rail weighs about 130 pounds per yard. Have you bought steel lately? Thousands of miles of right of way also makes trains extremely vulnerable to a potential terrorist attack.
Aircraft, on the other hand, only need a place to take off from and land. To me, it makes more sense to build a fleet of ultra efficient low speed short range transport aircraft that are optimized for bullet train cruising speeds.
Danger of terrorism as an argument against trains. That’s a new one!
Madrid Spain 3/11/2004
Isn’t that letting the terrorists win?
NH proposes to spend $300 million plus $6 million/year on a train that would carry 600 round trip passengers per day. …half a million per person plus $10 thousand per person per year.
Maine has already gotten about (I’ve lost track) $38 million to extend the Downeaster to Brunswick to carry a projected 60 round trips per day. No kidding! $633 thousand per person.
You couldn’t make this up!
Mountainbiker,
I agree with your first paragraph but if you think those buses are paid for by the riders, sadly, you’re mistaken. They are subsidized by federal highway taxes through the NHDOT. Buses don’t pay for themselves either.
Intercity transit subsidies enable commuters to live further and further from their jobs without the burden of paying for their additional commuting expenses. It’s a subsidy for the well-to-do.
“When it’s all done, a trip from San Francisco to San Diego will only take four hours by train.”
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But, if it ever happens, it will cost taxpayers billions and billions and will never pay for itself.
And that is what will kill it. The bond issue was passed with the promise that it would operate without subsidy. As the lies are being refuted by the truth, it is becoming more and more apparent that the CA trains will never roll.
That ought to clarify Obama’s blurry “vision”.
"Being driven to violent anger by something is not exactly the same as liking it. (other drivers being an inherent part of driving) "
You assume that people behave just one way every second of their life and are not influenced by their surroundings. I don’t buy it.
I don’t have a problem with mass transit with one caveat. That’s if it’s a stand alone operation that gets by on its own 2 feet without being subsidized by the taxpayers.
With possibly a few route exceptions, Amtrak is a bottomless pit.
There is a commuter airline that flies in and out of the small airport here that is subsidized to the hilt. The plane lands and 2 people get off of it. Figure the cost per mile and fuel consumption of a twin turboprop ferrying those 2 people 300 miles.
Just curious (still) CCC. Do you use alterante transportation such as trains, the bus, bicycles, car pooling, subway, or even the most basic of all, a pair of shoes?
I’ll be interested in how much this ends up costing - right now the estimates are about $55 BILLION dollars for 800 miles of system. I’d be amazed it the cost doesn’t increase substantially. The ‘cost to benefit analysis’ had it taking in about $30 billion over its life, with the rest of the substantial financial benefits made up of other benefits, such as pollution and traffic reduction.
I imagine the cost will end up being about $100 million per mile.
Is this the best way for the US to spend this amount of money? (and it’s the US, the feds are contributing over $10 billion so far).
Read the first page, many people have already answered this falsehood about subsidies. Cars don’t pay for themselves and neither do planes. They are both are heavily subsidized, so unless you want to get rid of those tax moneys and other moneys (the cost of air pollution which is absorbed by society, for example), your point is moot.
Simply, there’s no good reason why Europe can have excellent high speed rail and the US can’t.
If you notice, any time an estimate is given that involves taxpayer dollars the real cost is always much, much higher than projected.
A sewer project that went in here some years ago wound up a tfifle over 400% of the original projected cost. The same thing happened in the next city over; same engineers and contractors.
JMO, but I think the taxpayers will be gouged every step of the way and odds are that every project in every state works on the same model.
In the case of the sewer project I mentioned the engineers get a 6% engineering fee and a 6% inspection fee. Do the math. Do you think they want 12% total of the original estimate or 12% of the 4 X greater amount? This is why one always sees a constant parade of change orders and add-ons.
If someone gave an estimate to redo the roof on a home and the final tally was 400% higher no doubt all hxxx would break loose.
I’m still curious CCC as to whether or not YOU use any alternative transportation methods.
So you don’t want them to put in sewers in your town?
Stuff costs money. A good infrastructure costs money. Again, Europe can afford high speed trains. Why can’t the USA, the richest country in the world, do so also?
Again with the Europe nonsense. They’ve built their rails over 100 years because it works in that situation, doesn’t here. There is not the TRILLIONS of dollars available to build the network you contemplate…we simply can’t afford it.
Last President I liked, Eisenhower, had the leadership to have congress pass a fuel tax which paid for the Interstate system, and for years had ‘surplus’ funds which were used for many things. A higher fuel tax today (leaders like Eisenhower) could help in many ways, in addition to paying for better highways.
There are to many people in the world
You have no effin’ clue. At the time this sewer was going in I became an elected official in town AFTER this project started. Apparently I’m the only one who chose to actually read anything regarding this sewer project and I fought (by myself, unfortunately) to try and stop some of this. Too late, the snowball is rollin’.
Some points to consider.
Under grilling by me, the chief engineer admitted the project was designed for a town 4 times our size.
The adminsistrator of the project also happened to sit on the board of a bank located 80 miles away and said bank handled the funds…
The chief engineer admitted to me (again, under duress) that certain parts of the project was not needed.
This same engineer who was behind the sewer project in another nearby town botched their sewer project, which operated differently from ours. When a major screwup happened a week after the sewer project was done the engineers told this town when pressed, “So, sue us.” The town repaired this rather than fight a legal battle.
Let me just say this engineer apparently thinks that some construction materials that are much lighter than water will not float. Oops.
One part of our system (guaranteed to need no repair for 20 years) had to be fixed at great cost THREE separate times within the first 2 years.
As I type this out guess what’s happening on occasion? During times of excess rainfall raw sewage is dumped into the creek that abuts the sewage lagoon. This is exactly why the project was done in the first place, to eliminate dumping into the creek.
So years later, countless thousands of dollars and sewage still winds up going downhill; eventually to the Gulf of Mexico.
I could write a real tome on this but you should get the idea by now and I won’t even get into the potable water situation. It’s a laugher too.
Apparently you’re not unhappy with boondoggles and waste.
they probably put on their shoes so they can walk over to their H2 Humvee to drive 3 blocks to the store, then a mile to work.
It is funny to watch these kinda people squirm when you ask them what they drive when they’re bashing SUVs or cars in general. Half of them probably drive F-250s