Mike-- According to you all-caps logic, we should do pat downs at shopping malls and parades. Take a chill pill already
What’s the mater CCC…if you’re so RIGHT…then how come you can’t can’t attach my points or others. You’ve yet to address ONE.
To CCC or anyone else for that matter: From what I gather, the HSR projects in FLA & CA are underway. Who is supplying the steel for these projects? I sure hope it’s U.S. & not foreign steel companies. Just asking.
Mike, this is a common CCC tactic. If he can’t address your points, he simply suggests you endorsed something you didn’t even mention, and then he tries to make you look for silly for saying something you didn’t say.
All you did was mention that all rail travel, even high speed rail, has security flaws. They aren’t the same flaws and risks as air travel, but there are flaws nonetheless. Since you are obviously correct (any sane person can see that!), the best he can do is try to add some flaws to your logic by misinterpreting it.
Of course it would be ridiculous to do pat-downs at shopping malls and parades, and we all know that. We all also know we weren’t talking about shopping malls and parades in the first place. The only one doing that is a hapless troll who is acting in desperation because in a battle of wits, he is unarmed.
Karl, I sure hope so too. I remember back when “buy American” was the call of reactionaries. But now to all the so-called Conservatives and right wingers, Outsourcing = Capitalism = the American Way, and it’s “Buy Walmart!” (Sam Wall being a big Republican and Walmart the biggest single purchaser of Chinese products).
I don’t think you can draw a line in the sand and blame any political party for this issue. First, there are many in this discussion who are raging liberals, yet they disagree with both of you. As a Democrat, your xenophobic behavior is simply an embarrassment to the thinkers of all political persuasions.
Japan was only allowed to dominate the steel industry because American companies refused to invest in modern equipment. I know the history intimately. American steel companies rested on their laurels, and that was their downfall.
Let me tell you about the American way. The American way includes economic Darwinism. The American way includes competition, which makes us all better. If American companies, whether they are auto manufacturers, steel manufacturers, or makers of electronic goods, had done a better job of competing, they would still be on top. Companies that can’t compete go out of business, and that is the way it should be.
Ford and GM wouldn’t be where they are today if it were not for Honda and Toyota. If Honda and Toyota were never allowed to sell cars in the USA, you would be driving around in the modern equivalent of the Edsel.
Mean Joe, I know what you are doing. By calling President Obama “our glorious leader,” you are trying to compare him to North Korea’s communist president. The reason I refuse to let you get away with that is that almost all of President Obama’s policies are either continuation of policies set in place by George W. Bush, or they are idea born in the minds of prominent Republican leaders. Name a policy, and I will give you the Republican origins.
Cap and Trade? I believe that was John McCain’s idea.
TARP, and the rest of the bank bailouts? Those were started by George W. Bush.
Our policies for Iraq and Afghanistan? We withdrew from Iraq based on George W. Bush’s timeline, and Obama is using the same strategy in Afghanistan as Bush.
CCC has definitely been drinking the Kool-Aid, but I see so many people calling President Obama “Barry” or “our glorious leader,” and although I hated George W. Bush with a passion, I always gave him the respect he deserved as my President by calling him “President Bush.” I don’t know what drives the your lack of respect, Mean Joe, but I never heard any conservative talk about President Clinton in the same manner. But that’s okay. I will assume it for some reason other than the color of President Obama’s skin. Perhaps you just don’t like his uppity confidence and eloquent speech.
Anyway, we can disagree on the President’s policies without being disrespectful. Can we try to do that?
Whitey said, “First, there are many in this discussion who are raging liberals, yet they disagree with both of you.” I guess you are responding to me and CCC.
I only asked a question. Do you know if U.S. steel companies are going to be primarily involved with these 2 HSR projects in FLA & CA. We need more jobs. 5 people in line for every job opening in the U.S. right now, on average.
Is ths the same thread that started last year? California is bankrupt, who is going to pay for this project,the Chinese?
Here & there you can find rail or bus lines that have a dearth of ridership, but in the densely populated areas of the country our transportation capabilities seem, in the aggregate, to be continually overwhelmed by our growing society’s inexorable need to move from point A to point B.
High speed rail would seem to be an effective new transportation “dimension” for America. Also, it doesn’t seem to be a question of “if we build it, will they come?”. The NE Megalopolis, for example, is projected to be at 58.1 million people by 2025, only 14 years from now. As opposed to the 49.6 million in 2000:
http://www.america2050.org/northeast.html
Even if these HSR projects lose money initially, they would seem to be visionary, vis a vis our continually growing & mobile society.
Karl, you’re right.
I find it interesting that some naysayers argue against HSR by saying it won’t be used, while others say it will increase urban sprawl – in other words it will be too popular!
I also remember when factoids against wind farms were floated around by so-called experts saying things like 97% of the USA doesn’t have enough wind, etc. Of course, the “think tanks” sponsored by corporations can find and pay an expert to say just about anything to delay any progress in our country that might cut into oil company profits.
I’m reminded of this line from Obama’s SOTU speech:
"We need to get behind this innovation. And to help pay for it, I’m asking Congress to eliminate the billions in taxpayer dollars we currently give to oil companies. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but they’re doing just fine on their own. So instead of subsidizing yesterday’s energy, let’s invest in tomorrow’s. "
Cut the oil company subsidies, invest it in high speed rail.
Whitey, I wasn’t trying to denigrate Obama with that line. I was trying to point out that C^3 seems to take everything the Obama administration says without any skepticism whatever–and that’s not healthy.
So I wasn’t implying “Obama is a commie” but rather “Cars Cause Cancer is treating Obama with the same unquestioning loyalty that a communist leader expects from his citizenry.”
How are taxpayers going to pay for this system? Print more money?
The population has always been growing. Why hasn’t public transportation worked in the past?
Our dependence on oil will be greatly diminished with hybrid and electric vehicles.
we went from Kitty Hawk to the moon in 66 years.Just because you won’t see changes in your life time, don’t dispair.
I would worry about our economic collapse and takeover, than oil.
Most posters agree with the need for high speed rail in the densely-populated northeast. It’s building train across the rest of the US that I, at least, see as a waste of money.
What I think is impressive is that China is looking ahead. By 2020 China will have 14,000 miles of high-speed rail (at least 120 mph). The U. S. has I believe less than 500 now and probably no more in 9 years.
This is important because rail is the most efficient method of transportation. Energy is NOT likely to decrease in price. China is looking to the future. The US does not.
http://www.solarfeeds.com/the-green-leap-forward-/12404-a-look-at-chinas-high-speed-rail-investments
That ‘billions of taxpayer dollars we currently give oil companies’ is, guess what, about $4 billion a year. Should those subsidies be eliminated? Maybe (other industries and agriculture get sizeable subsidies). How does $4 billion a year compare to the cost of high-speed rail? It’s a DROP IN THE BUCKET! Remember, CA forecasts (no doubt optimistically) that their system will cost $55 billion.
Obama’s comment is just another in the long history of red-herring comments by ALL politicians to make us think there’s some easy answer. Just tax the other guy! Sure!
Sorry, the numbers just don’t add up.
It’s a global economy, now. You gotta make the investment. The Chinese are. They will eat your lunch - probably breakfast and supper, too.
The US has less than 500 miles of sort-of high speed rail. By 2020 China will have over 14,000 miles. They already have over 4,000 miles. I believe the latter number is more than enough to go from sea to shinning sea in this country.
http://www.solarfeeds.com/the-green-leap-forward-/12404-a-look-at-chinas-high-speed-rail-investments
“Why hasn’t public transportation worked in the past?”
Because energy has been GROSSLY under-priced. The events of the past 5 days ought to make things more clear.
There is no more efficient way to get people and things from one place to another than by rail.
As a previous poster, who lived in China, said, that 4000 mile value appear bogus, at least as far as state-of-the-art, European-style HSR. And how will driving our county further into debt building trains, high speed or not, let anybody ‘eat our lunch’? How are high speed trains going to be the savior of our economy? How do they contribute to productivity?
If you read that article, many of the reasons China is doing this don’t apply as much, or at all, to the US.
By ‘under-priced’, you mean ‘under-taxed’, right, since the only way to increase energy cost is to tax it. And who pays that kind of tax? Everyone, poor, rich, working, unemployed, everyone. That’s why US politicians have not had the nerve to propose it. They haven’t even been able to keep taxes on gasoline flat, after inflation.