Here are the important considerations. For example, the Forester is rated to tow 1500 lbs with the four cylinder and cvt. ( the same as a RAV) The Outback with the same motor and a cvt transmission is rated at 2700 lbs. Tow capacities give you a great indication of drive train capability. Towing is often done on hills, maybe not of 35 degrees but enough with all that weight to show they have traction and power enough to handle the hill in question… without breathing hard. Other then a rented RAV, has OP indicated what vehicals are routinly driven up and down this hill. It does not appear to be deserted. Btw, modern cars in AWD always engage the power to the rear wheels on hills. They just don’t engage enough like a Subaru and more expensive drive trains. RAvs are limited to 45. % while a Subby can go as high as 80% . That’s one reason why they generally have higher tow ratings then some comparable cars…IT ISN’t the motor. Gearing that is correct will allow any motor in any modern car to conquer steep hills…with ease if the traction is there. All cars have sufficient gearing for your hill.
Btw, on hills, all modern AWD have power going to all the wheels before they slip. The sensors that detect the hills immedialy provide torque to the necessary wheels before they even move. Subaru, being a rear drive layout, does a better job of getting more torque to the rear which is better going up hills…and cornering.
@dagosa - good information, thank you. Because this street dead ends up here there actually isn’t much traffic. There’s a small relatively unknown (except to neighborhood folk) green space/park at the top that most neighborhood people use for dog walking as houses in this area have no yards out front. There is no place to park up here outside of driveways.
However, cars that have made it up here more than once are: Tesla Model S Performance, Prius, UPS truck in reverse 2/3 way, blocked tires, FEDEX usually in reverse, Ford F-150, large heavy duty pickup trucks. A small pickup blew its transmission when it parked in the driveway and then tried to reverse uphill to turn around and leave. Other makes have come up one time but we’ve had two tow trucks this year so far and two blown transmissions - given the limited traffic here it’s not a very good track record of success.
@shadowfax - we need a functional family car: a sporty car or small sedan won’t meet our needs. We want a compact SUV or hatchback. Need room for teenagers and their gear to ride.
@BlackMountainDreamer
I hear you say you have looked at cars. How many try outs have you actually taken home ? All the vehicles you mention are two wheel drive. I have not seen mentioned, one AWD or 4 wd vehicle. What is preventing you from bringing an AWD vehicle home to try out ? You need a car with a high tow capacity…then try it out. Gravity is like tow weight as far as the car/ truck. Is concerned. The new Colorado crew cab to seat five, compact pick up may have on demand 4 wheel drive and have a tow capacity of 7000lbs along with low range and a 300 hp motor.
Still, you must bring them home to try out !
How do you insure your houses. it fire trucks can’t get up the hill ?
@dagosa - within San Francisco city limits there are limited dealerships, which means traveling to a neighboring suburb to see/test drive a car. We had been waiting for about seven months for the new Jeep Renegade to launch and had planned to purchase it. Unfortunately, it hit West Coast markets just last month but many new owners on the Jeep forum have reported serious quality/safety issues (car stalled instantly on the freeway due to a clip that came loose, was leaking fluid and had to be towed after one week of ownership, sparks and smoke spewing from the steering wheel within a few weeks of purchase, just to name a few.) Upon further research, we discovered that the 9 speed transmission in the Renegade is identical to one used in other makes/models and has been very unreliable/problematic. This spooked us.
So, in some sense we had to rethink the whole thing and start over. A decent size fire truck can park on the other end of the park but I don’t know where the nearest hydrant is up there. My grandfather was a fireman here his whole career - this city has all size trucks to serve our unique topography/density. I have faith that they’d figure something out.
A representative from Volvo (not from sales, from engineering) has offered to come out and conduct a number of performance tests later this month. He’s from Sweden.
Did you say you had a parking area on top of the hill that was more accessable?,if so thats where I would park,if health issues prevent you from walking up and down the hill,maybe its time to consider a move or an escalator,sounds like a charming place to live,but maybe not so practical,34 ’ drop in a 100’ is dang steep.One of the public agencys around here wont go any steeper then a 12% grade,cant remember if it was the Forest Service or DOT,but good luck there are several vehicles that will handle that without much sweat(they dont have to have a god awful amount of HP either a 40HP farm tractor would eat that for lunch(hmmm,maybe a shuttle would be a good idea)
@kmccune - the area to the other side requires driving around several blocks to the other side of the hill and then traveling through the bushes and scaling a low retaining wall to get the top of our street so it’s not very practical.
This house was a regrettable mistake - hopefully we’ll laugh about it and have great stories to tell later.
Run as fast you can from the Land Rover. It’s a horrible money pit. The Volvo is a little better, but only in comparison to the truly awful Land Rover. The BMW is better, and will probably make it up your street just fine, but they are expensive for what they are and their care and feeding is always pricey. You do not want a Renegade no matter what! They only make sense for off road driving and are horrible road cars with terrible handling, a busy ride, and no positives. They aren’t even very reliable. Their off-road prowess will be wasted on your street. Of these my choice would be the Tiguan, though it has very modest AWD abilities. At least it is a pleasant car.
I suspect any AWD vehicle will do it, even those that can’t send more than half the torque to the rear wheels. You aren’t losing all traction on your front tires even up the hill, and the rear tires will have massive traction with the amount of weight on them. At low speeds you don’t need that much power to crawl up a hill. Just low gearing that every car has. A more sophisticated drivetrain, as in Subarus, can send more torque to the rear, but you will be going slowly, so even a simple AWD system should do. As another noted, trippy tires will help. Just put the transmission in the lowest gear1 and don’t be afraid of revving the engine as much as you need to move. That’s what low gears are for, using the engine’s power at low speeds.
I’m not sure why you think Subarus are especially weak, as they really aren’t. All modern cars are far more powerful than cars of any previous time, even economy cars. The WRX, other Subaru turbo models, and the inspired STI are powerful enough to get you in trouble (if you’re sixteen). Even the base models have plenty of power to crawl up any road in their lowest gear. Cars have gotten stuck on your hill due to confused stability control systems or drivers afraid of breaking their cars. It won’t happen if they drive sensibly.
So go find a comfortable AWD vehicle from a reliable make and avoid vehicles designed to cross the Sahara. Any compact crossover like a Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Mazda CX-5 will do perfectly well with AWD. Or a Subaru. If you want to spend more and get more power, the Acura RDX is very nice and has a V6. It will be much more reliable than the Euro equivalents. Lexus has a new compact NX, too, with a turbo four, which would be a little less suited for hill crawling than a V6. It also comes as a hybrid, if that appeals to you.
It should be kept in mind that any new vehicle warranty complaints over brake, clutch, whatever issues may not be warrantable as use of a vehicle in a situation like this could be looked at as abusive driving.
Slightly OT, but can you imagine what it was like for the people who built that neighborhood and had to dig foundations, work cement, and wrestle all of those materials up the hill and then onto the house that is going up? Especially the guys doing those roofs; that’s a long ways down.
I think we’re down to Volvo XC60 T6 or a Subaru Forester or Outback at this point. These are the final contenders. We’ve decided the Tiguan, while very nice, isn’t as robust as we’d like.
I still think you should try a Prius or other hybrid. Electric motors provide a lot of low end torque, and its a very controllable torque so are are far less likely to lose traction. The only issue with a new Prius is the tires, they are spec’ed for low rolling resistance and not for good traction, but a tire upgrade should solve that problem.
@keith - we do have one electric vehicle already and it has been fine but we need a more practical family car for trips, etc. It is true about the Prius’s - many Uber drivers have them and delivery folks and they seem to get up here without issue. That being said, it is one thing to come up here once in awhile and another thing entirely to do it multiple times a day. I imagine it would produce some wear on a vehicle not designed for such conditions on a routine basis. We found a great buy on a 2015 Volvo XC60 T6 AWD with only 9K miles. We might go for it. U.S. News & Reports ranked it just slightly better than the Subaru. Got to love the safety features on Volvo for family use.
All the feedback, opinions, and advice from everyone has been great and much appreciated. Thanks everyone!
@ok4450 - Surprisingly, our house as it sits is not really in as precarious a setting as one might think with regard to mudslide. We are not perched teetering on the hilltop like many homes are. Our home was built in 1986 and the foundation is built deep into the hillside. No basement. The house just above us is Victorian era and has sat there on more or less level ground at the top for over a hundred years. It’s just the road to get up here that is totally nuts. We’re basically at the top of a steep ridge/mini-mountaintop. It’s fairly level up here aside from the road/driveway. Our small rear garden is tiered though and has multiple levels.
i would rely on consumer reports on cars. They use actual surveys of previous owners, arguably the least bias Of any periodical. They are not concerned about the feelings of a sponsor.
But, this is SanFranciso, so maybe it is more important to buy a Volvo.
@dagosa - nah, there are way more Subarus in our neighborhood. I just like the feeling of security offered by the Volvo’s impressive safety ratings, that’s all.
I give you credit for putting up with the locale and considering safety on your car purchase.
Maybe the locale looks worse to me due to perception. I live in the OK flatlands and in many areas one can see multiple towns 20 miles, or more, off. In certain parts of the Panhandle one can see TX and KS from the same spot.
