Mike, you throw $21k per year like it isn't the cost of a new house per 4 years per kid...we had teacher's salaries, not your's
I didn’t say one word about working parents paying for the kids tuition. In fact I’m strictly talking about kids paying for their own education. $21k is VERY VERY doable for a kid to go to college on their own. If their parents really can’t afford to help them (like mine) then they’ll probably get some sort of tuition assistance. They might have a college loan to pay back that’ll take them 10+ years to pay back…but it’s NOT out of reach no matter what your income.
The other problem is picking a major that’s going to give you a decent pay. Computer Science pays well (but not all have the aptitude or even like it). Get a degree in History or Spanish and then try to get a job??
As for engineering jobs needing a MS…Not here in New England. Very short on engineers or computer science majors. Starting salary is about $65k for someone with a BS and no experience. More if you have a higher degree and experience.
As for the military and education, I returned from Vietnam in 1970 and attempted to get an education but found an uphill battle on every front and the $300 per month wouldn't cover my cost of living much less tuition and books and after working 40 hours each week there was little time to study
Obviously it depends on where you live and how you go about it.
After nam I went to a 2 year college first. Tuition was only $700/yr. So my $300/mo more then covered the costs. I worked part time during the school year…then full time during the summer. After 2 years I had enough for one year at Syracuse University. I transferred in…paying for one full year of school. Then I went part time for 2 years while I earned enough to pay for the rest. I didn’t want to take out a loan.
My MS was covered by my employer.
A clerk at one of the McParts stores here had an MBA degree but when the company that moved him here suddenly folded he had a new home with an upside down mortgage and 3 kids.
That’s a big problem in many parts of the country. I have a nephew who’s in that boat. New Process Gear (Or what ever it’s name is today) finally closed. He was laid off a couple years ago. Now living paycheck to paycheck. No good jobs in the area…3 kids in school…upside down on his mortgage.
The American Dream IS ATTAINABLE…but not everyone tries for it or is successful.
^
You got Scholarships;Merit, Need, Developmental, Competitive Matching
Fellowships,
Teaching Assistantships
Research Assistantships
Work Study
Athletic
Low Income Grants
Tax Credits
Prepaid Tuituon Credits
Loans.
Some are simply a ledger entry and some are cost shifting. Some loans are forgiven and some loans are just not repaid.
Could be that we are just talking about definitions and sematics?
These monies often come from sources other then from whomever is doing the billing. How can the biller shift these entries around ? Often times they let the student know when other entities who have agreed, have helped pay the student’s bill. A tuition bill can be paid by serveral legitimate sources, either within the billing University system or outside. I don’t get our point either .
I don’t get the point either. Me too.
I love our system of tuition. You should too. For the most part we reward those who prepare academically, financially, and who have initiative.
BTW, son’s grad work was paid by our Canadian friend. Uncle Sam and US colleges are/were too cheap.
Need to get a correction on a 1099R from my credit union I’m 95% done on the taxes.
Median household income nation wide is <$53,000. Can we agree that the 50% below the median cannot afford to send a child to college? And of those families above $53,000 what percentage can afford the cost? Possibly a very frugal family with one child living in Iowa could afford to afford the cost of a 4 year degree on $54,000 if they were relentless in their efforts to find and take advantage of every available opportunity.
Education for the financially advantaged is somewhat taken for granted and only the particular school and course of study are in question for the fortunate. For the rest a secondary education is a great deal more difficult to attain. Personally, I believe that the public school system should be expected to deliver a much better result. A high school graduate these days is often barely literate and has only a vague understanding of any courses taken. Multiple choice tests allow schools to give the illusion that kids are being educated and some level of secondary education is required to bring kids up to the level of what was expected of high school seniors just a generation or two ago. This country is failing in educating the young at every level.
@RodKnox
You can only teach the willing. I think we tried NCLB. We have tried what ever came before NCLB and are now trying something else.
You can teach someone to fish but not everyone wants to fish, remembers how to fish, likes fish, or how to use fish. So is it my fault that the teacher didn’t get the student to learn the fishing part or what to do what to do with it’s once caught?
What we want is not the same as what we need. We want everyone to read and write and do consumer math but what we need is a population that can make critical decisions with or without being able to do 3rd grade reading. Just look at the Republicans, you show them the numbers, they even know how to get the numbers but won’t act on the numbers.
Rod, I absolutely agree with your post.
Our primary and secondary systems’ responsibilities, their charter, is to turn out students who have the educational foundation to either successfully persue higher education in their field of choice or become productive and fulllyy functioning adults through another chosen path. Sadly, these systems are horribly derelict in their responsibilities. I believe most of them perceive their functions and simply graduating students…not educating them. There is a HUGE difference. I also believe that the primary and secondary systems are being used to teach students WHAT to think rather than HOW to think. I believe that’s a primary reason that so many kids cannot get accepted into universities, and those that attend community colleges usually need remedial courses (politely called “preparatory” courses) before taking any college level courses. It’s also the primary reason that for decades over 50% of the graduate students in math and science programs have been foreign students.
As regards the cost, according to www.collegeboard.com, the cost of an education at a 4 year university has gone up by a factor of 2-1/2 (150%) since 76-77, while according to the U.S. Census bureau Per Capita Income has only gone up by a factor of 1-1/2 (50%). All while discretionary income as a percent of percapita income has been dropping.
In short, the cost of college has been rising far faster than income has been. And the difference between the rise in the cost of college and discretionary income grows even faster.
In short, far too many of our kids are graduating high school without the academic foundation to attend college and far fewer of those that have the prowess can afford to go. Unless, of course, one is a football or basketball star (no disrespect meant to our atheletes).
A lot is broken. I’m not optimistic that I’ll live to see it fixed.
I agree with the the same mountain bike and Rod Knox. Over the 44 years I was a faculty member at a University, I saw a decline in the mathematical and writing skills of the incoming students. Even worse was the decline in study habits. There was always the subtle pressure to “retain and graduate students”. The state legislature in my state is very concerned about college graduation rates. I am sure that this is true at many other state supported institutions. The effect of all this is illustrated in the book “Academically Adrift–Limited Learning on College Campuses”. The authors of this book tested 4000 incoming freshmen at 20 institutions on mathematical skills, reasoning skills, writing skills, etc. These students were again tested after two years at the institution and unfortunately showed little or no gains.
I think one way to tackle the problem would be to have experienced faculty who understand what reasonable expectations are teach college freshmen courses and insist that the students meet these expectations. The students who won’t or can’t perform are dismissed. Universities and colleges should quit worrying about graduation rates and concern themselves more about the education a student is receiving.
One of the reasons why college costs have risen much faster than incomes is that college and university administrations have really become bloated. The college in which my department was housed had 23 departments when I came to the institution in 1965 and was administered by a dean and an assistant to the dean. When I retired two years ago, the college was down to 20 departments as a new college of communications was formed. However, the college is now administered by a dean, three associate deans, a business manager, an assistant business manager and a fund raiser. Of course, the size of the secretarial staff also increased.
As a nation, we suffered through the mortgage crisis. That crisis, I believe will pale compared to the higher education crisis that is looming on the forefront.
You talkin to me? why so many cntrl E Or sure more spaces puts it into another page. Top of the page for now. Respond to the video? Did not think so @longprime
what is the "education crisis that is looming on the forefront? "
The crisis is that we have college graduates who owe thousands of dollars on student loans, and are trained for specific jobs that are either scarce or don’t exist. Had these students really been educated instead of trained, these students would have been prepared for many jobs that require thinking, writing, mathematical and quantitative skills.
Here’s a quote from a prospective student, awaiting the fat letter at an “highend”, “prestigous”, national, private university:
Is anyone concerned about the amount of work at ***** compared to other schools? Heard it is all work…no school spirit…and a terrible amount of stress…any current students available to comment?
I will assume that this applicant has the aptitude, scores, grades, and recommendations. Would you loan this family-student money?
@Rod Knox,man you have some very salient points.Some Folks will never make it no matter how hard they try-but the caveat is,most people can at least make an upgrade or adjustment in thier situation. Determination and persistence has a lot to do with it,I’m amazed at the contributions and improvement in our lives by the efforts of these unsung heroes,with Masters degrees and Doctorates(also the efforts of the common man) What I’m trying to say is thanks for the hard work(made my ride a lot easier).
Anyway, a case in point one of my friends from Upstate New York has a son(next of kin to Superman) who had a serious hunting accident it almost blew his arm off,but through persistence,determination and a lot of patient hard work,was accepted in the Specials Forces(Green Beret ,I believe) He did a one handed chinup with the formerly injured arm in front of the Dr,giving Him the physical exam,the skeptical Dr,procedded then to pass his physical and this Man even went on to do a stint with the SEALS, so hard work certainly has its rewards.
But seriously Folks,I think sometimes the “trough” is too crowded and it has shown up in the jobs that require serious analytical thinking in place of Rote,the World has so many people now,its just possible that we may have to adopt another societal model in this increasingly "fecund " world(from the Human population stand point any way)-Kevin
PS,I meant that Majors like Middle English or stuff like that,not Majors in the hard sciences-KM
Sadly, experienced faculty are now being replaced with adjuncts, many of whom are excellent but very few of whom have the investment in the development of their program that full time faculty should have. Adjuncts, as good as many of them are, are just “hired guns” paid to teach a particular course…period. And I also agree about the bloated administrations.
Is anyone concerned about the amount of work at ***** compared to other schools? Heard it is all work…no school spirit…and a terrible amount of stress…any current students available to comment?
I will assume that this applicant has the aptitude, scores, grades, and recommendations. Would you loan this family-student money? @longprime–I believe there is satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment in working hard to achieve a goal. This student is going on hearsay. My guess is that there is school spirit at this institution.
Would I loan him money to attend this school? NO