Between “no child left behind”, Block scheduling adjustments because of cut backs, state testing programs, increased graduation requirements which put basic, English and math instruction on a par with electives, pull outs from school classes for band and chorus, as well as assemblies, we were lucky to see our upper level college bound kids twice a week for classes. This is a far cry from the 5 day a week scedule of years past. And, many schools are doing it because it’s the cheapest way to get contacts.
The problem with this is, you’re dealing with teens who if they miss a 90 minute class with illness and they are in the band and they have a block scedule, you may not see them for a week. With 30 kids in a calculus class, all with their own schedule, they may not find there way in for make up, let alone for extra help…all 120 of them, a typical class load. And, the college bound kids are involved in extracurricular activities making after school help a thing of the past. We had to make appointments for make ups as early as 7 am for some. The frustration teaching in public schools with theses extraneous activities goes well beyound this for a typical day. How about sheduling kids to come in for extra help during other teaching classes. I was “forced” to do that when the principal cided with students who convinced her, they just didn’t have the free time to come in after school…they did have time to hang out in the parking lot though…but instead chose to interrupt my teaching. The politics just gets to the principals.
If kids have to choose between an academic courses and an activity, they choose the activity with no thought of the future. That, my friends is what goes on in many public highs schools. So, you can blame the teachers, but they are given no say in the policy making behind the scheduling . It took me 5 years after the introduction of block scheduling, and all the interruptions, to convince my principle it does not work in high school. He finally agreed, the year before he retired. Math and science often take the biggest hits as everything is sequential.
@various
I subscribe to the 80/20 theory.
I suspect this prospective student is just one of the 80% of the population who wants to be taught rather than to think out the solution. He is a success story for traditional education.
So what about Ed: He’s an idiot. But less of an idiot than that other media, conservative idiot. I refuse to listen, watch or read from idiots that have arguments that can easlly be taken down. As for Mr Ed: Let’s take the 80/20 theory where 80% of the work is done by the 20% of the population. Run the theory 3 x on the 20%; [100 people x 20% = 20 people.{1}; 20 people x 20%=4people {2}; 4people x.20%=1people {3}] Now do the same iteration on the work-productivity side {100 x 80%=80 (1); 80 x 80% =64 (2); 65 x 80% = 51 (3) ]. Which says that 1% of the population accounts for 51% of the productivity. I think that the data proves this, the 1% actually does have close to the majority of the wealth. And that 1%, does and rather should pay the majority of our taxes, willingly, gratefully, and with great humility.
The biggest problem in my town with Math and Science…is getting qualified teachers.
Several of the teachers don’t even have Math degrees. One is has a degree in History. They may be dedicated teachers, but from what I’ve seen most are NOT qualified to teach Math. And Science is even worse. The ONE teacher they have for computer science use to be the gym teacher…has a degree in phys-ed. But…they don’t want to pay a decent salary…so this is what they get. And that’s why all my kids went to a private high-schools.
The last student teacher I had was the ONLY male math major in the college of education at a state university going that semester on student teaching assignment. There are few qualified math teachers in general because there are fewer students as math majors. The college of education enrollment has dropped dramatically as well. The numbers aren’t there. We had this discussion before…when I taught and advised students as part of a guidance program preparing kids for majors, many made their decisions based upon the cost of their education vs the payback in the jobs they get .
I know some will say, " if you really wanted to teach math, you would live in a hut for 10 years till you payed off your loans" More of the child bearers, the women, will accept that as they know a school working schedule works well for raising families…ie, higher ratio of women to men in education then ever in Math and science. For the guys, they go with the money to pay back expected expenses and it’s not in teaching. That dynamic drops the total enrollment in math and science education significantly.
@longprime
You’re saying that the top one percent deserve what they get because they are responsible or 51% of the productivity ? I don’t think working as a mechanic is non productive. The top 1% certainly aren’t the builders. They are those who make “money for nothing” , the non producer who turns capital into more capital into capital, the manager…So while I disagree with the productivity, I certainly don’t with their responsibility. You are absolutely right IMHO about that.
But then, if you define productivity as making money ONLY and not engineering and making everything you use, then you are RIGHT there too.
I think I get this impression in our school district. The local newspaper features “Academic All Stars”, supposedly the best student from each of local high schools. Pathetic. Lots of EC’s, but it’s church related. One AllStar was a foreign national. One AllStar had SAT’s that barely broke 700 on each section-Stanford is the goal.
BTW, the student that I quoted: He was appling to the Business school and not the Engineering or CS colleges of this university.
@dagosa
Didn’t say the 1% deserves their compensation. I am saying that if they make that compensation that they should pay taxes that are appropriate for their opportunity to do well in our economic and political system.
Mr Ed is trying (IMO) to illustrate in the graphic, the 1% is paid more than productivity gains would suggest and the bottom 80% is paid comparably less than their productivity would suggest. But, IMO, the auto mechanic should have a different metric than the risk taker-highly compensated.
The last student teacher I had was the ONLY male math major in the college of education at a state university going that semester on student teaching assignment.
Talking about high-school NOT college.
As for college…every math teacher and TA I had for math classes all had degrees in Mathematics.
We had this discussion before..when I taught and advised students as part of a guidance program preparing kids for majors, many made their decisions based upon the cost of their education vs the payback in the jobs they get
My brother’s a math teacher. He retired from his job…and now teaches math. Teaching doesn’t pay what it SHOULD. Especially in math and science.
I’m amazed that your kids are making their decisions based upon the cost and payback. Because in general…less then 10% in college today are doing that. Most are in a career path with very little potential for true growth potential. My son has a part-time job at a local grocery store. There are at least 4 - 20 somethings who stock shelves there with BA’s in Business.
@mike
"talking about highs school not college" Me too. He was preparing to teach math while in the college of education. The college of education prepares him to teach math in highschool while he was student teaching.
He was a student teacher at a high school. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. There are fewer college students taking math in college of education so there are fewer math teachers. And yes, an important reason had to do with the pay and cost of education…more for the guys. Even those whom did decide on the college of education expressed concern with the costs vs their pay when they got out.
You may be amazed, but considering it ( costs) sounds like maturity to me. If you are saying that “most are in a carrer path with very little potential for true growth…” Maybe they should have asked these questions too. In our guidance conferences, we talked about all of these factors. It was tough laying out facts to kids that may discourage them from teaching.
Parents of college students, like army generals, seem to be fighting the last war, longprime. An MBA was the ticket to the gravy train a few years ago.
Right now, if you want a job, albeit lower paying, majoring in Math Ed. Is a reasonable choice, if you are a male especially. It was the same for me when I wanted to coach HS football. Math majors could pick their schools…there was an opening in every school I ever applied to and I was offered a job in every school. But then, tuition in college was only $400 per year at a state university and my first teaching salary was $5300. The ratio was significantly better then.
Or at least that’s what they had us all believing.
I agree with you. Too many parents still seem to believe that a college degree, any college degree, is the path to success. In far too many cases the kids have no idea what they want and are pursuing liberal arts and gen ed degrees…and to some extent business degrees…simply because they can’t handle technology program demands. They end up unemployed with no skills that meet the market needs and with huge school bills.
IMHO the schools promote this. Lib arts/gen ed degrees are cheap to put in place and put asses in the classes, and the schools know full well that unless the graduates go for doctorates they’re unlikely to be able to use the degree.
I personally believe that a postsecondary education should be seen as the opportunity to get the training, education, and credentials to pursue whatever you’d like to do for the rest of your life.
What do you do with a degree in French Literature… Degrees in Business are a dime a dozen. …English degrees don’t pay well…Same with History…If you get a degree in business from Harvard Business school…that may give you a better chance of getting a good paying job…but not so much for the lower tier colleges.
This where we came in as the jobs are through education, not necessarily 4 year academic degrees, though many there as well. The education most needed are two year tech, degrees in specific areas that businesses can take a lead in. Operating and maintaining coal mine drills means the coal miner of old is a job of the past. There are so many basic tech jobs available and too many kids are lost in the cracks and can’t train for and match up with them for many reasons.
Here is hoping that more on line training and placement is a key for these people to both prepare and find a job efficiently and economically. I really feel the reduction in the cost of education can come through “at home schooling” , not by parents, but by the best instructors in the world in every students home. There is no reason why you can’t work at MacDonalds during the day and get a two year tech degree at night.
So" post secondary education is an opportunity to get training" and " the academic 4 year degrees don’t pay as well" go hand in hand. Great to see a renaissance man with a Havard degree in English use his skills to read a manual in diesel repair for degree he can earn a real wage with.
Looking out the front doors of my shop in the 1980s made for a discouraging picture. A small garment manufacturing plant more than 30 years old slowly dwindled from hundreds of workers to a dozen. The employees there made clothing with Hart-Schaffner&Marx and LL Bean labels until the work was moved to Mexico in stages. The final group in the sewing room attached the waist band to the pants that were trucked in from south of the border with a MADE IN USA label on the waist band. Even that silly effort was dropped by the mid 90s. The building was vacant the last time I passed.
One man who worked at that factory most of his adult life also worked nights loading trucks at a parcel delivery business and was able to support his family and his parents and send his daughter to college to become a school teacher. That factory and dozens like it have closed and left young people without much opportunity. That pipeline that gets all the hoopla from right wing television can’t employ even 1% of the desperate, discouraged unemployed in this country. But of course, if we cut all benefits they will get hungry and desperate enough, and be grateful for whatever work they are offered. Either that or they will be rioting in the street.